Immigration Supporters Use Research Ploys to Deceive America

I am against making illegals citizens, especially when we have millions of Americans out of work. It's true, making them all citizens would put a hurt on our economy. On our schools, welfare system, our prisons, our police force, our courts and etc.

But I also know we can't deport all those here. It's not fair to punish children that were brought here by their parents. I would allow them to become citizens after they met certain qualifications that has been mentioned before.

As for their parents, I would not give them the right of citizenship. But I would give them legal right to be in this country, much like a Green Card. They would have to register with the government and be finger printed and a picture taken. With all of them registered, we know who they are. If anyone is stopped for a legal infraction and they are not registered they would immediately be deported. If convicted of more than one minor felony , they would go to jail and after their sentence is up and be deported. They would have to pay taxes and they would fall under Federal work laws, so that employers would not have a benefit of hiring them over a American worker. They would qualify for health care, but not welfare. To me this would be the fair way to handle it since it's impossible to deport all of them.

 

Yes, I realize. And I also realize that my own mother was an immigrant. And I also realize that none of this has any relevance to the fact that immigration is now harmful to America (in a lengthy list of ways). Legal immigration should be restricted to immigrants bringing in badly needed skills, and capital in large amounts to open businesses and create jobs for AMERICANS. In general, immigration to the USA has been improper since 1860.

 

You're saying that if he hadn't done that, no one else could/would have done it ? Strange notion.

 

Of course not. I am certain others would fill his shoes. My point is reaffirming the notion that we are a nation built by immigrants. These people bring with them the ingenuity that makes the United States the most prosperous nation in the world. With each wave of new immigration, there are calls for quotas, increased border security, mass deportations, and other measures. While many consider these nativist policies necessary and proper, they are quite tyrannical.

My great-grandfather would be able to come to the United States due to freedom of movement. This condition of liberty would not be fettered. Why should countless others not receive what is inalienable, self-evident, and universally cognizant?

 

Frankly I just do not agree with your premiss. Can you show any proof that the things you listed are caused in any way be legal immigration? Becuase as far as I can tell legal immigration helps us more then it harms us.

 

1. Both immigration and affirmative action are a problem. Both should be stopped or reduced dramatically.

2. I'm talking in the present, and unassuming future.

3. You aren't suggesting a solution for off books work or lower wage = less tax.

4. Are you nuts ? The last thing we need is MORE of them. (See my list of Harms of immigration)

5. You can't eliminate the income tax. It's needed for many things. If anything taxes should be raised on the very rich and this would buy more ICE agents, CBP officers, create more immigration courts & jails, repair disastrous infrastructure, etc.

6. No. It's simply due to more people entering the country. ANY larger influx of people is going to have some % of it be criminals. That's all ADDITIONAL CRIME.

7. Of course traffic and its congestion increases as more people arrive and put cars on the road. No need for statisitcs. BTW, Mexican illegal aliens are a menace on the road. They can't read English road signs (many can't read any language). I once showed some illegal alien landscapers a word of English and asked if they knew it. Four guys couldn't identify it. The word was STOP. They don't bother to get driver's licenses. They've never been road tested, and many (if not most) flat out can't drive. We're talking people who never drove a car in their whole life before coming here.

8. Nothing to do with habits. More people = more pollution. Simple.

9. Another "Are you nuts ?" With EMTALA and their frequent use of emergency rooms, they've been driving private hospitals out of business. Haven't you heard ?

10. off topic

11. You heard right. Go to any Social Security office. You'll see.

12. YOUR class ? That's nice. Here in Florida, kids are attending classes in trailers because of the overpopulation of students caused by immigration.

13.. It's a drain on funds.

14. FALSE! Here's the definition of a NATION - - a stable, historically developed community of people, with a territory, economic life, distinctive culture and language in common.

 

I'm out of WiFi time for today. Will get bAck to you tomorrow, if I can fit it in.

 

I'm out of WiFi time for today. Will get bAck to you tomorrow, if I can fit it in.

 

Again "replying" isn't addressing. Get it ? You haven't refuted a thing.

Those 8 million aren't "people to sell to" - they are remittance senders. Their money goes out of the country. I already corrected you on that twice.

As for your stupid racist remark about "brown guys, I happen to be a "brown guy", and I already mentioned that before.

 

Lots of things happened in the past. So what ? want to go back to covered wagons and quill pens ? Sheeeeeshh !!

Why should they not receive what is inalienable, self-evident, and universally cognizant? Here's why: (ever study Geography ? (I have a degree in it).

Harms of Immigration

1. Americans lose jobs. (especially Whites due to affirmative action).

2. Wage reduction.

3. Tax $ lost (due to off books work + lower wages paid).

4. Remittance $$$ lost. ($40 Billion year).

5. Tax $$ lost to immigrants on welfare.

6. Increased crime.

7. Increased traffic congestion.

8. Increased pollution.

9. Overcrowding in hospital ERs.

10. Overcrowding in recreational facilities.

11. Overcrowding in government offices.

12. Overcrowding in schools.

13. Decrease in funds available for entitlements.

14. Cultural erosion.

 

Thank you I will waith until then

 

Can the US afford it?

"AP Exclusive: Internal documents shows Obama deportation proposal could cost more than $585M"

ALICIA A. CALDWELL Associated Press Last Updated: July 24, 2012 - 4:16 pm

http://www.dailyjournal.net/view/st...5db581166/US--Immigration-Deportations-Halted

 

Although I'm in favor of legal immigration, it wouldn't hurt to fine tune it. Most of our legal immigration family chain immigration, which doesn't really open up much room for Einsteins.

 

Must be short term memory loss, swated down this turd too.

Each dollar sent out of our country means the one's in your pocket and bank account are worth more. You're better off, quit complaining about it.

I see you decided to regurgitate the same "harms" again. Quite the one trick pony you are.

Let's snuff these out again, maybe then you'll stop lying about me addressing them:

1. Only if your a high school drop out, for everyone else employment effects are nonexistent.
2. Nothing at all to support this, in fact immigration typically leads to increases in the average wage.
3. They pay excise, payroll and sales taxes, amongst other. Studies indicate between the welfare they receive and the taxes they do pay, it's a wash.
4. Learn how inflation works.
5. Addressed in 3. Basically a duplicate to increase the size of the list
6. This has some merit, but there's better ways to address this than shutting the door to immigrants.
7. Same issue occurs due to population increases, you want to limit that to I assume? 1 child policy?
8. See 7.
9. See 7.
10-12. All the same issue, overcrowding. Which for one is a bunch of nonsense, if overcrowding were an issue why do people continue to move and enjoy living in dense urban areas? For two, see 7.

I guess you'd like a totalitarian regime that prohibits fluctuations in population as well since overcrowding is such a major issue for you? No? Then find a better reason to whine about immigrants.

13. Nonsense, as shown, they increase the economic activity, that activity generates additional tax revenues. This is unfounded nonsense.
14. Disgusting jingoistic, nationalistic, self adsorbed drivel. American culture is one built on immigration and immigrants, that you now want to insist you get to be the last to define what 'American' is, is so incredibly self centered.

This is me playing your silly "harm" list game. Now let's see you refute the economics that deal with immigration. Or are you going to keep hiding from actual research?

 

I don't mean to be overzealous, but you could have that answered by any 10 year old. More people = more crime. Moer people = more illness (strain on hospitals). Legal entries on work visas take away jobs from Americans (I've already noted a sourc on that - are you reading the thread ?). George Borjas of Harvard University (already mentioned him too) did an exhaustive study which found widespread wage reduction from ALL immigration. More people = waste products/more garbage/pollution. etc, etc. Read the thread. And can I show any proof that the sky is blue, that water is wet, or that cows eat grass ?

 

While Obama's campaign continually crows about "creating jobs", every one of these work visa jobs is the destruction of a job for an unemployed American. If he creates 1000 jobs and grants 999 work visas, he will have created one net job.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2407210/posts

 

In contrast to our (USA) ludicrous chain migration, Canada, with a size and resource base similar to ours, has for many decades maintained a point system of immigration. It was not so easy to get into Canada. One had to meet quite a number of qualifying criteria including education, occupational skills, etc. As a result, Canada has kept their population down to what is about optimum for them (or us in the USA) - 30 million. That is less than 1/10 of the bloated US population.
And the result ? One could examine many criteria, but one need only look at the precious resource oil for the answer. Rather than be importing 70% of their oil (like the US does), Canada, with a surplus of oil, EXPORTS oil and makes a nice profit from that to assist their budget. Wouldn't it be nice if our US budget deficit could have that ? But nope, we still IMPORT oil big-time, and guess who our # 1 oil supplier is ? >>> Canada.

 

HA HA. No they're not worth any more at all. Every year things costs the same as they did the year before, or cost more. What stores (AKA the economy) have you been shopping in ? Pheeeeww !! (high-pitched whistle). (*)(*)(*)(*) man, the talking points your pushers have been feeding you are pretty wild. When you look at them too long, they start looking normal. I think you might have talking-point sickness. Pheeeeeww !

Reason why the harms is "one trick pony" is because it is reality. And reality doesn't change (unless we the people change it). Get it ?

Let's snuff these out again, maybe then you'll stop lying about me addressing them:

1. FALSE! H1B visas go to college educated scientists and engineers willing to work at very reduced wages. I already refuted you on that with a quote from the Director of the American Society of Black Engineers regarding wage levels. How many times do you have to be told ? Got a vested interest in this, don't you ? Care to reveal ?

2. HA HA. Immigration leads to increases in wages huh ? Is anybody out there stupid enough to fall for this guy's blatant, utter nonsense ? If you are, you need to leave the forum quick. Sheesh. I already cited the George Borjas (Harvard University study) - one of YOUR sources too. How many times do you have to be told, before you stop pretending that you didn't know ?

3. Of course it's not a wash. Taxes$$$$$ are LOST big time by off books work and a result of their lower wages. Any 10 year old could fill you in on that.

4. Inflation my ass. $40 billion/Year going to Mexican et al stores instead of American ones. Sorry to deflate your balloon Mr. Talking Points.

5. No they're not the same. One is tax loss due too little taxes paid TO the govt. The other is tax loss due to too much tax $$$ paid FROM the govt to the immigrants.

6. Yeah ? What ways are those ? And they still won't stop immigration crime increase.

7. "Same issue" ? What are you talking about ? That IS the issue that I've been talking about all along. What have you been talking about ? Of course I want to limit it. Starting with immigration, and following immediately with mass deportation, similar to Eisenhower's 1954 Operation Wetback.

8- More people. More garbage. more pollution. Ask any 5th grader.

9-12. Fundamentally they are all the same problem. Overcrowding. Yes, same problem > immigration.

13. So now you're trying to say that a society controlling immigration as part of its population control = being a "totalitarian
regime, huh ? Oh man. the smilies are getting a workout on this one.

14. Oh you're a mulitculturalist (along with your other faults). Gee, I'd have never guessed. Maybe you'd like to see 100 different languages all spoken inAmerica at once. Don't worry. We could all take up sign language using our hands. Pheeeeeeeeeeeewwww !!!!

As for real true research, you don't get to define what that is. Sorry, but as the Rolling Stones used to say, "You Can't Always Get What You Want"

 

I guess Geography is where they teach you to write like an adolescent! The childishness of your rant and complete lack of credible sources ultimately undermines anything relevant you might say.

Nope, it's because it's the only script you have, repeating the same lies will never make them true.

Unions don't like competition? Color me surprised.

Sure does, not matter how much you stamp your fee about it.

http://www.epi.org/publication/bp255/

I'd say you're lying, but you just really have no idea what your talking about, you've done no research, your just spewing your dishonest script

http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/ju...omic-impact-immigration-state-and-local-level

Thanks for reminding everyone reading that you don't know how it works.

They are, this is added to make this nonsense list seem longer and more valid. It's longer, but still complete nonsense.

Better processing, a swifter path for those only interested in seasonal labor... it'd be easy but the discussion is to muddled by zealots like yourself who aren't interested in evidence but rather furthering your agenda.

The exact same issues arise from population growth. So I suppose your a 1 child policy supporter? No? Then get consistent.

Well you've forced us to assume your in favor of something similar to China's 1 child policy. You can either wear that banner proudly or be a hypocrite, your choice.

Just not a self centered jingoist zealot.

Do you ever tire of having facts that destroy your case thrown at you? Keep hiding behind your labor union opinion pieces, their the only people interested in your anti-economic drivel.

 

I'm trying very hard to not toss out personal attacks, but with you it's impossible. You're constantly lying. I've given many
credible sources (including one of YOURS),... and you know it.

Script ? It's REALITY, ...and you know it.

Of course unions don't like competition with immigrants undercutting their wages, ...and you know it.

Immigration depresses wages. Everyone knows that. What could possibly motivate you to talk so ridiculous ? You are a greed freak employer of low wage immigrants ? SEIU leader ? Cardinal Mahoney's book carrier ? LA Raza zealot ? What's your game ? Care to let us in on it ?

 

HA HA. No they're not worth any more at all. Every year things costs the same as they did the year before, or cost more. What stores (AKA the economy) have you been shopping in ? Pheeeeww !! (high-pitched whistle). (*)(*)(*)(*) man, the talking points your pushers have been feeding you are pretty wild. When you look at them too long, they start looking normal. I think you might have talking-point sickness. Pheeeeeww !

Reason why the harms is "one trick pony" is because it is reality. And reality doesn't change (unless we the people change it). Get it ?

Let's snuff these out again, maybe then you'll stop lying about me addressing them:

1. FALSE! H1B visas go to college educated scientists and engineers willing to work at very reduced wages. I already refuted you on that with a quote from the Director of the American Society of Black Engineers regarding wage levels. How many times do you have to be told ? Got a vested interest in this, don't you ? Care to reveal ?

2. HA HA. Immigration leads to increases in wages huh ? Is anybody out there stupid enough to fall for this guy's blatant, utter nonsense ? If you are, you need to leave the forum quick. Sheesh. I already cited the George Borjas (Harvard University study) - one of YOUR sources too. How many times do you have to be told, before you stop pretending that you didn't know ?

3. Of course it's not a wash. Taxes$$$$$ are LOST big time by off books work and a result of their lower wages. Any 10 year old could fill you in on that.

4. Inflation my ass. $40 billion/Year going to Mexican et al stores instead of American ones. Sorry to deflate your balloon Mr. Talking Points.

5. No they're not the same. One is tax loss due too little taxes paid TO the govt. The other is tax loss due to too much tax $$$ paid FROM the govt to the immigrants.

6. Yeah ? What ways are those ? And they still won't stop immigration crime increase.

7. "Same issue" ? What are you talking about ? That IS the issue that I've been talking about all along. What have you been talking about ? Of course I want to limit it. Starting with immigration, and following immediately with mass deportation, similar to Eisenhower's 1954 Operation Wetback.

8- More people. More garbage. more pollution. Ask any 5th grader.

9-12. Fundamentally they are all the same problem. Overcrowding. Yes, same problem > immigration.

13. So now you're trying to say that a society controlling immigration as part of its population control = being a "totalitarian
regime, huh ? Oh man. the smilies are getting a workout on this one.

14. Oh you're a mulitculturalist (along with your other faults). Gee, I'd have never guessed. Maybe you'd like to see 100 different languages all spoken inAmerica at once. Don't worry. We could all take up sign language using our hands. Pheeeeeeeeeeeewwww !!!!

As for real true research, you don't get to define what that is. Sorry, but as the Rolling Stones used to say, "You Can't Always Get What You Want"

 

That's usually the tactic a loser in an argument adopts.

Ironic statement of the decade. Your sources are all from labor groups, who have a clear bias. I've cited dozens of credible sources and that's a statement of irrefutable fact. Another fact is you've not read or addressed a single one, you have to hide from the facts your script demands it!

Yup, same regurgitated garbage in every single thread. It's a script, and a bad one.

Agreed, from anywhere, it's the nature of labor unions. They're the labor equivalent of a monopoly. You'd know that if economics was something you did.

Back to the same lies. I can keep posting the evidence just as long as you want to keep telling lies about it.. who knows.. maybe longer

http://www.epi.org/publication/bp255/

Other than anyone who does any research on it. That'd be you of course!

Facts, evidence, economics and the underlying belief in liberty and freedom for people to sell their time and skills in any market they want. The anti-freedom folks love obsessing over imaginary lines.

 

Are you dreaming ? My sources aren't from labor groups (FAIR, Numbers USA, CIS, et al) > all independent research groups.

Your sources are vested interest jokes.

Not a script. Reality which you pretend to not recognize. But you know. You know.

Evidence ? I haven't seen one shred of it from you.

Immigrant workers consume FAR LESS goods & services than the Americans they replace. Those Americans wouldn;t have been living 17 to one house, now would they ?

If it's the same BS "research" you dig up.

FALSE! You're a vested interest. Care to reveal it to us ?

 

Lying is very childish.

Or maybe you're not lying, you're hiding. Ignorance is a silly position.

 

Yes it is. So stop doing it. What's your game ?