The truth about 'human shields'. MOD ALERT

Depends on the Evidence. Many tribunals have ruled, based on the evidence, that Israel has committed war crimes. I presented some of this evidence and you have failed to comment on any of it.

I have explained this numerous times - The courts deemed that war crimes had been committed, based on the evidence. These crimes were committed by the IDF. The IDF is not a person, you can not put the IDF in jail.

Proving that the IDF committed war crimes is one thing, convicting the individual(s) responsible is quite another.

What part of this is so hard to understand ?



.

We know the crime was committed ... we have the dead bodies and we know the name of the nation state that was dropping the bombs or other weapons.

This is utter nonsense and denial. Almost every humanitarian organization on the Planet and almost every Government on the planet has been critical of Israel.

This is nothing other than abject denial.

What lies did Amnesty international publish about Israel?

What part of my comments on the political ramifications of doing such a thing did you miss ? It does not matter how strong the case is. In many cases no court does anything.

We do this to our enemies, not to our friends.

 

You said that civilized courts found the IDF guilty and then failed to show us bringing up a case where one court was thinking about trying an individual, not for the supposed war crime itself as that was done by a third party but for allowing it to occur.

It never ruled.

The court never ever ruled.

No. The crime was committed by the Phalangists

It is one thing considering the IDF didn't commit the massacre, the Lebanese did.

You stating the Israelis committed the massacre.

Yes. The Phalangists

They are not courts.

Now, do you actually have proof of your statement or are we just wasting time?

You said;


"IDF has been found guilty of crimes against humanity by courts in the civilized world."

And so far you have not shown us which court has 'found' this so but rather have shown us NGOs who think this and a commission that exonerated the IDF in this matter as well as a court that was thinking about accusing an individual for allowing this to occur but no court has 'found' the IDF responsible for crimes against humanity.

 

I did show you the courts. Both British and Belgium. Both state that the IDF was guilty of war crimes.

That you do not understand this is not my problem.

Your comments on Sabra/Shatila are a joke which shows a stunning ignorance, disingenuousness, and/or lack of reading comprehension.

IDF had command responsibility. Sending third party militia in is the same as doing the dirty deed yourself.

Watertight evidence but Sharon wiggles out because of diplomatic immunity. The Kahan inquiry also finds Sharon personally responsible for the massacre.

The IDF is guilty of war crimes - and this is just one of many many occasions.

 

Ah .... ya it is as they did not.

Well to tell the truth your entire fantasy is a comedy of epic proportions as you writhe in your inaccuracy simply because you don't have the moxie to confess that you really don't have the proof that "IDF has been found guilty of crimes against humanity by courts in the civilized world."

Instead of showing us what court actually ruled this you pony up with contortions of garbage telling us that if this occurred, and that did that the court would have thought this or that.

In fact though, no court has ruled as you quoted. Which makes this merely a typing exercise for all of us as we wade through your denial of truth.

Which court ruled this or is this just another made up fantasy of yours?

Also? Well it certainly exonerated the IDF so there goes your fib fest! Oh, remember too that the Commission is not a court.

Let's see, Sharon is personally held responsible and the IDF are exonerated and you say they were to blame.

See, that's what you get when you read the Classic Comics version of commission reports - your facts upside down.

 

I noticed I forgot to provide the link, not that this has not been given you previously .. You can claim that what is written in the link is fantasy if you wish

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/nov/28/israelandthepalestinians.warcrimes

You claim all the evidence is fantasy . That from humanitarian organizations, the UN, most of the Governments on the planet, and courts from countries allied to Israel.

I'm sure that they are all wrong and you are right.

 

Didn't say that they were talking about a fantasy only that your belief that some court has ruled that the "IDF has been found guilty of crimes against humanity by courts in the civilized world."


From your link;

"A Belgian court will today decide whether to try Ariel Sharon for war crimes" Hmmm, looked and nothing there about them finding the IDF guilty of "crimes against humanity" so when are we going to see proof of that?

 

Wow, so much waffle that have no bearing on your claim that AI lied. It is up to you to prove they lied. As a hint on how you can prove this, what size lump of WP would be needed to last two days? Surely you must have the figures as you have said they lied, so show them.

LOL at you writing the words Surface Area as if you know what you're talking about dad, and then using the words burn rate!

Ps have you tried burning that lump of coal yet and comparing the time to oxidize with that of coal particles?

 

The Phalangists pulled the trigger while the IDF, who were responsible for the security of Sabra and Shatila, stood by and watched as the killings began. Kahan found Sharon to bear "personal responsibility" for the massacre and he was forced to resign as Defense Minister as a result.

In law if you are allied to the perpetrator and in a position to prevent a murder or murders taking place, but do not attempt to do so, you are as guilty of the crime as those who do the actual killing. This was the position Sharon found himself in. The Chief of Staff of the IDF was also found to be complicit in contributory negligence. How many times do you need to have this repeated?

Let me ask you this; do you believe that both Sharon and the IDF were complicit in allowing a preventable massacre to take place? Simple question.

 

It is Pathetic reading Zionist denials of Israels war crimes. Israel deliberately targets civilians and civilian objects and children and that is exactly what the UN Report addressed in the OP discloses. And this is not an isolated incident, this is targeted attacks and substantial violations of intl law over a 10 year reporting period. White phosphorous was deliberately used against civilians in their houses and children and civilians taking shelter in UN schools. Families literally watched their children burn to death in front of them. What does a person defending these atrocities say about that person? I cannot understand how any person can defend these crimes, it always amazes me the evil man is capable of supporting and defending and embracing !

 

And predictably any denial from the apologist will be accompanied by 'look over there-see what they are doing!'

 

You have presented EVIDENCE, not rulings from Tribunals.... Interesting how you can acknowledge understanding the difference with one breath and demonstrate total ignorance of it with your actions

I don't know, what part of it is SO difficult for YOU to understand. You drone on and on about proof of crimes committed but only provide allegations. WHERE'S THE PROOF? You're demonstrating your prodigious skill at the circuitous argument the favorite technique of liars and frauds and frankly without solid responses and hard data this will be the end of yet another discussion with you as a total waste of free bits and bytes.

Post 481... I realize READING words written by someone you disagree with are tough on the ego, especially when they force you the think independently and prove you wrong; but the statement by Amnesty incontrovertibly exists and is unquestionably false.
Once someone is caught in a blatant lie, their credibility is completely lost. When are they lying and when are they telling the truth? Amnesty and HRW are both proven liars.

With friends like you, Israel certainly doesn't need enemies.

 

I believe Sharon was but not the IDF as they had no control over the actions or inactions of their leader or, even being aware of same..

Now, tell me, which courts in the civilized world have found the IDF guilty of crimes against humanity?

HRW and AI are not courts BTW.

 

We have thre of them here now, maybe one of them can come up with the proof of "IDF has been found guilty of crimes against humanity by courts in the civilized world."

If none can then maybe we can just assume there are none and that Israel is innocent of any and all wrong doing.

Oh, and allegations, accusations, AI and HRW are not courts.

 

I presented evidence from numerous tribunals and commissions including from the UN and Amnesty international. The links are there you need only go back and read.

This is hilarious. A high percentage of Israeli's are against what the IDF I doing, the neocons in power, and the continued war with Palestine. The fact that you are ignorant of these realities is no reason to go into ad hom mode.

Here is what 27 "Israeli" Pilots have to say on the issue. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/sep/25/israel

Take your ignorance somewhere else por favor. Better yet, try educating yourself !! .. then you may have a chance at saying something intelligent.

 

MY IGNORANCE? Educating myself?

You're still presenting EVIDENCE not findings by a court.... Are you dense or just playing childish games?





A high percentage of Israelis are against what the IDF is doing... Provide some factual backup for THAT TOTAL LIE. Actually nevermind....

Argument with you is done... you have been dismissed as unworthy of my time....

 

Post 560......Still waiting

 

Get in line, I'm still waiting for proof of "IDF has been found guilty of crimes against humanity by courts in the civilized world." from almost a week ago.

 

Evidence, not rulings. Contrary to what you stated here;

"IDF has been found guilty of crimes against humanity by courts in the civilized world."

He says 'a high percentage' and then to back it up brings forth a quorum of less then one percent of a group which is less than one thousandth of a percent of the total population of the nation he refers to.

27 pilots equals a high percentage of a five million person nation huh?

 

Those 27 are but a small percentage of hundreds of testimonies from the IDF military alluding to mistreatment, harrassment, taking "payments" from shopkeepers etc, etc.
You name it, the IDF has done it: http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/testimonies/database

 

"Against Hamas" = a war crime if carried out by civilised countries? Civilised countries have agreed to the CWC but at least you have stated that the Israeli government dont care if they carry out war crimes as they know that they will never be taken to court for this as they have not signed protocol III.

 

Yep... We still are, you have a homework assignment pending...

 

War crimes? Why not jump on the fib train with your bro and tell us all about 'war crimes' and courts rulings then come up empty handed when you are asked to prove your hubris.

Oh, don't forget to prove your stuff with actual fact, not allegations, accusations and commentary from left wing mantra worshipers.

 

What a group you have! Not one of them has fought Hamas despite that over 700 of that vermin were killed in Gaza in cast lead.

 

Zionism's list of crimes is very long. Ethnic cleansing, murder, theft - the hallmarks of fascist regimes. People ask why the world at large doesn't fight back . Why doesn't the world serve Israel notice of intent to curb its criminal activities ? Well, it appears that it just did;

 

Dont need to prove anything. You have provided the proof with your statement that WP was used against Hamas. That is illegal if carried out by civilsed countries under the CWC, obviously Israel refused to adhere to the CWC and would not become signatory.