Suddenly you hear a voice...

So, does your cult drink red kool-aid or blue? Or is maybe green?

 

That is going to change, this century. Mark my words.

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Would YOU have ended slavery back then (my guess is that you are indeed moral enough to do that, had you had the power - like "god"/Jesus)? If so, then realize that you are more moral than "god"/Jesus, and therefore there's no need to worship entities that are less moral than yourself. That's just common sense.

 

Why do you say that God killed them? Are you telling me that if it wasn't for our Christian God everyone would be full of love for one another? I guess then sixty million didn't die under atheist Communism in China, and forty million under atheist communism in the USSR?

 

So did the residents of Auschwitz.

Jesus was too immoral to speak out against this practice. But YOU would have, Jeannette, I believe, because I believe that you are a moral person. No one has told you before that you are more moral than Jesus (I'm guessing), but you are indeed. You are also more moral than Mohammad, because he was a slave owner, and would have known better if his invisible friend was the creator of the universe like he claimed. No one has ever told you that before, have they Jeannette? That's because people don't realize how great you are (again, assuming that you don't approve of slavery), and maybe even you yourself don't realize just how great you are. You're better than Jesus, and Mohammad, the two most "worshipped"/emulated people of all time. Just think about that.

 

Do you realise that morality is subjective? Ignoring what modern Christians believe, in Jesus' time slavery was not immoral. (That doesn't mean it was alright as someone above posted. London England was built entirely without slaves mostly before the industrial revolution and has some truly amazing architectural works of art.)
You can't claim Jesus was immoral when he (by reports in the bible at least) followed his own morality very closely. You could argue that since he was Jewish and constantly argued with his elders, worked on the sabbath and potentially blasphemed (along with his crimes in the gnostic gospels) that he led an immoral life. But that is another subject.
But then by definition, I do believe that it is impossible for a supreme God to act immorally.

My point is, your argument is weak.

 

Yes, people who are not modern Secular Humanists (like those communists, and the Christian's invisible friend) do terrible things because of their immoral belief systems.
THE BIBLE says that "god" killed them, Jeannette. Or is the Bible wrong about that? If it's wrong about that, then it's probably wrong about "Jesus" coming back to take people to "heaven" too, obviously.

 

Jeannette, would YOU have ended slavery back then if you had "god's" supposed powers, or not?

FYI: as a modern Secular Humanist (the world's most moral belief system) I of course would say "yes!", because what's best for the greatest number of people is likely the best course of action to a modern Secular Humanist, NOT what's best for "Jesus" or "god".

 

Either you're a liar, or you're twelve years old and don't really know humanity. You claim to love humanity, but if you did you'd know that people are religious by nature, you'd have an appreciation for spirituality, and would be more compassionate towards religion. But, instead, it's this comparison crap, like to show off how much better you are than them. That makes you an outright hypocrite.

 

So obviously we need to not look to that time for moral guidance! That much is crystal clear.

As a modern Secular Humanist I clearly don't look to that time for moral guidance, and neither should other people.

 

Compassionate towards humanity, but not necessarily compassionate towards ancient immoral fairy tales that say it's perfectly fine that someone like Gandhi (not a Christian) burns forever, because even though he was moral, he didn't buy into the ancient unproven fairy tale of the magic zombie in the sky.
Jesus HATES MOST of humanity. I love humanity. Jesus apparently has no problem with seeing that about SEVENTY PERCENT of humanity (the non-Christians) BURNS FOREVER. If he cared about those people, he, with his magic super-hero powers, could easily, EASILY, prove that he exists. But he doesn't, because he's either immoral or non-existent...either way he's unworthy of worship (unless one is too cowardly to stand up morally to that immoral tyrant.)

 

If soldiers and enemies weren't made slaves, they would have been killed or freed. If they were freed they would have rejoined their enemies camp and killed the people who freed them. Also what makes you think that people don't exist today who are selling their children into slavery so their other children won't starve to death?

Tell you what, instead of these 'evil' Christians going to places like the Far East and Africa to help the destitute, why don't you and the rest of these loving and self sacrificing secular humanists go, and see what they can do to help them. It might wake you people up to a bit of reality...if it's possible.

 

If by "religious" you mean are incredibly afraid of death and therefore willing to believe in soothing illogical fairy tales, then no, I disagree. I believe in humanity way more than you do. I know we don't need to look to immoral people for moral guidance. Jesus will see that all Muslims, Hindus, atheists, Buddhists, etc. suffer worse than Hitler made the Jews in the concentration camps suffer, and for much much longer, allegedly. Jesus is immoral, period. If you can't see that now, then I predict that you will, someday, when you are thinking more clearly.

 

So then Abraham heard demons, and not God?

Yes or no.

 

So then of course American should have KILLED the German, and Japanese, and British, and American Indian, etc., etc. soldiers that we captured, by your logic.

 

Why don't you just answer the question?

 

Good post.
Yes, Abraham was no different than the hundreds of thousands of insane people in mental institutions today who hear voices in their heads. He was simply nuts, just like they are. They need help, and so did Abraham.

 

did you read anything i wrote? or are you just trolling me? genuine question.
If you're gonna argue morals, you can't claim someone to be immoral for following their morals

 

Here is a list of great secular charities: http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Secular_charities#Secular_Charities_and_Aid_groups

Secular charities, generally, are more "pure", in the sense that they are giving because of true love, and not giving largely because of the more selfish fear of a possible bad afterlife because of some ancient fairy tale. They are generally more altruistic in that sense, it can be argued. Religious people are doing it for more selfish reasons, and out of fear.

 

God approves of rape in 10 places in the Bible, is that moral?
God approves of slavery many many places in the bible (and Jesus accepted slavery), is that moral?

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Answered above.

 

Jesus never said that people are going to burn, that is your interpretation of hell. The Christian hell is a place away from God. More than likely the burning is the yearning people have to be with God. Jesus only wanted to show people the way to 'attain' unity with the Divine after they die, and He suffered greatly for it.

Since our God is the 'Love' force which binds people and holds the world together, and since He is the Creator of the world, how can God do anything destructive? Think about it? How can He hurt and destroy something which He created? The reason God presents Himself that way in the OT is because it was the only way people could understand Him at the time. What God does do is allow the harm to occur when people turn away from Him. We were given a free will, God can't help us if we are not attuned and receptive to His help.

In reality, everything bad that occurs comes from our own hearts...even hurricanes, earthquakes, etc. When we turn further and further away from God's love it tends to disturb everything in the whole world. Expect more and greater disturbances.

So my dear man, if you don't start changing your ways, you're going to see those meteors land on your head.

 

Nah, probably not. And for Jesus to call for it would be silly. It's reminiscent of Steve Martin in the Three Amigos demanding that El Guapo change Mexico's form of government to include "the legislative, the executive, and the judicial". Or maybe the peasants in "the Holy Grail".
[video=youtube;JvKIWjnEPNY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvKIWjnEPNY[/video]

OR, we might still be living in the same conditions as they did, because no one ever did anything besides trying to survive. Slavery had side effects that were benificial, and perhaps necessary, for the time. I prefer living in a world in which pyramids exist to one with nothing but barren desert.

 

Wrong.

You need to read the Gospels more carefully.

 

BS. Gandhi is going to burn, burn, burn, and Jesus just sits on his fat arse and won't do jack about it! He's simply immoral.

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Bingo.

 

Then I'd have to say you are immoral.

 

You are probably right, it would be silly for an immoral person to call for something moral.