Islams eternal covenant is to protect and fight for Christians, politics and religion

The Christians always try to pretend they are superior to Muslims because Jesus said some nice things, well what they seem to forget is so did Muhammed, and Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet of God also. Dont get me wrong, im opposed to all religion, im just showing that both religions have very nice tolerant verses in the holy text, but they also have contradictory violent intolerant verses in the very same book. This one however is new to me and I would like to share it to prove that Islam has the potential for peace and tolerance, the same way Christianity does. Its all a matter of bringing out this potential, the way the Ottomans did in the past when Islam surpassed Christianity in cultural and technological superiority.

Here it is, the Eternal Covenant with Christians and Muslims,
http://www.islamicsupremecouncil.com/theeternalpromise.htm

"The Eternal Promise:

This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them. Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by God! I hold out against anything that displeases them. No compulsion is to be on them. Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries. No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims' houses. Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God's covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate. No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. The Muslims are to fight for them. If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray. Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants. No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world)."

This is not a thread to defend Islam, this is a thread to put Islam on the same page as Christianity and prove both religions have potential for extreme violence, but also the potential for tolerance and peace.

 

Their actions don't come anywhere close to the above, for the most part.

 

Matthew 22:37-39 - "Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

Bukhari 2:26:594 - Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet was asked, "Which is the best deed?" He said, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle." He was then asked, "Which is the next (in goodness)?" He said, "To participate in Jihad in Allah's Cause." He was then asked, "Which is the next?" He said, "To perform Hajj-Mabrur."

 

In the Bible it says turn the other cheek, I have never in my life even heard of a Christian doing that, their answer is always "Bomb them! Bomb them!!" quite literally actually, a Fox News host said word for word "Bomb them! Bomb them again and again!" and she continued on with that for a while longer lol, I dont remember the exact quote but thats essentially how it went

 

[Luqmaan 31:19] "And be moderate (or show no arrogance) in your walking, and lower your voice"

(Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT) "However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way."


This is an easy game lol, both holy texts are filled with contradictions of being tolerant and being intolerant.

 

Indeed, however everyone should be able to agree that the message that Jesus preached is, without a doubt, superior to the message that Muhammad preached.

 

I agree, because the message Jesus preached was Marxist. He even stole from churches and gave it to the poor, if thats not Marxist I dont know what is.

 

Too bad that didnt make it into the koran, and instead they get.

[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

 

Except with Christianity, the intolerant, violent verses of the old testament are abbrogated by the peaceful, tolerant verses of the new testament. While with Islam, the tolerant peaceful verses of the Meccan period are abrogated by the more violent, intolerant verses of the Medinan period.

 

And why then would you attribute their behavior to their christianity when they do? It is a contradiction of their doctrine. ON THE OTHER HAND, when Muslims "fight", "kill", "slay" and "smite the necks" of the unbelievers, it is in accordance with their doctrine.

[3.151] We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority, and their abode is the fire, and evil is the abode of the unjust.

[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.(*)

[2.193] And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah...(*)

2.216] Fighting is enjoined on you, and h is an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know.

[2.246] ...May it not be that you would not fight if fighting is ordained for you? They said: And what reason have we that we should not fight in the way of Allah, and we have indeed been compelled to abandon our homes and our children. But when fighting was ordained for them, they turned back, except a few of them, and Allah knows the unjust.

[3.169] And reckon not those who are killed in Allah's way as dead; nay, they are alive (and) are provided sustenance from their Lord;

[4.74] Therefore let those fight in the way of Allah, who sell this world's life for the hereafter; and whoever fights in the way of Allah, then be he slain or be he victorious, We shall grant him a mighty reward.

[4.76] Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of the Shaitan. Fight therefore against the friends of the Shaitan; surely the strategy of the Shaitan is weak.

[9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

[9.111] Surely Allah has bought of the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain;(*)

[9.123] O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

[47.4] So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them

 

If this was true, than why during the Crusades the Christians raped and pillaged everything in their path, even a fellow Christian Venetian city that was going to help them cross the Mediterranean to get to the Holy Land? Multiple Popes throughout history have declared religious wars in the name of Christ, many of which were offensive wars that were not provoked by the other side. Look at what the Spanish did in the Inquisition, or what Bloody Mary did in England, or just the general oppression the Catholic church has caused for over a thousand years. Even the Confederacy used Christianity as a justification for slavery, if the Bible "abbrogated" the violent verses in the Old Testament why did all of this happen for over a thousand years and only since the SECULAR Enlightenment Era that this began to die out? Clearly Secularism destroyed most of the Churches power throughout Europe and America, this is a historical fact that is undeniable, and the Secular morality now prevails in the West over religious morality, THAT is why we are more tolerant than the Muslims, because of the Secular Enlightenment, NOT because of Christianity. Christianity is threatening this tolerance we hold so dearly, which is why we have to fight against Christianity also alongside fighting against Islam.

Also, Jesus specifically said "Don't misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose." Matthew 5:17.

He did not come to end the laws of the Old Testament as you suggested. Also, he did not come to bring peace, that much he was very clear about also, "Don't imagine that I came to bring peace to the earth! I came not to bring peace, but a sword." Matthew 10:34.

You Sir, just got your argument destroyed.

 

This is from the New Testament,
"Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them." (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)
"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ." (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

No wonder the Confederacy were such hardcore Christians huh?


If you say Jesus ended all the violence and bad stuff from the Old Testament (which I just proved he didnt), does that mean the Jews follow a violent bloody religion like the Muslims do?

"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)


When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

 

Yes, I agree with the basic point of the OP. Both religions can be used for bad and good. There are certainly certain interpretations of Islam and sharia which are rather liberal. But we must keep in mind that they are different religions. Jesus was a hippie, mohammed was a warlord prophet in 7th century arabia. Obviously, their lives, their conditions, and their environment shaped their teachings. It would be no suprise that mohammed, being a warlord, would have more to say about war, and that what he said would be heavily influenced by life in arabia at the time. Islam is much more of a handbook for all parts of life, in a way which christianity isn't. Christianity talks more about an universal and timeless message of peace and love (and other hippe stuff), but Islam, in addition to that, talks about codes of conduct. What Muhammed has to say about how muslims should do things was influenced by how arabs at the time did things, and it was not an easy life living in arabia at that time.

Values of societies can be said to exist in two axes. One is family and collective versus the individual, and the other is religious versus secular values. Poorer societies' values are more family/collective and religiously oriented and richer societies are more towards secular and individualism. The reason is rather simple. If You live in a poor and insecure place, where the harvest might fail and you'll starve, bandits might come and raid and kill you etc. You sure as hell would manage much better by keeping close to your family and tribe, and you sure as hell would appriciate a god to pray to. Thus, the values of such societies are the result of the harsh conditions there, which forces them towards family oriented survival values.

Arabia during muhammed's time was such a society, and those values are pretty much set into stone by the koran, and because of being the words of god, these values, according to muslims, apply even in societies which can afford the luxury of more individualist and secular values, hence the culture clash wiht the west. Since christianity does not at all to the same extent have these survival values as an integral part of their religion, they are fundamentally different.

Yes indeed, Jesus was a bloody hippie by modern standards which is why I am not a christian.

 

Because, sometimes Christians don't adhere to their own doctrine

And absolutely nothing within biblical doctrine supports such actions. In fact it could easily be argued those wars were in contradiction of biblical doctrine. Like I said, sometimes Christians don't follow their own biblical doctrine. First 300 years of Christianity's history was an application of Christian doctrine. The religion encircled the Mediterranean sea via the spoken and written word, persecuted every step of the way by the governing authorities. Then the Roman authorities adopted Christianity as their own and Christian doctrine became whatever the Catholic church said was Christian doctrine. Nobody could read the Latin text of the bible other than the catholic clergy. The invention of the printing press, widespread translation and publication of the bible, the spread of literacy, the protestant reformation and the text of the bible, CHRISTIAN doctrine is used to show the illegitimacy of the divine rule of the catholic church,
Thomas Paine in his pamphlet "Common Sense", used the text of the bible to demonstrate the illegitimacy of the divine rule of monarchs and demonstrate the legitimacy of government of, by and for the people, So I don't blame Christian doctrine for the Roman Empire and Monarchs actions in violation of that doctrine.

 

"15:2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
(15:2-3) "Thus saith the LORD of hosts ... slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass."
15:3 Now go and smite ×Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass."
God, the slayer of Ass!

Gee, I wonder where the Crusaders and Popes might have gotten this crazy idea that war is good? Oh right, the Bible.

 

And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah. Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know. How can there be for the polytheists a treaty in the sight of Allah and with His Messenger, except for those with whom you made a treaty at al-Masjid al-Haram? So as long as they are upright toward you, be upright toward them. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him]. How [can there be a treaty] while, if they gain dominance over you, they do not observe concerning you any pact of kinship or covenant of protection? They satisfy you with their mouths, but their hearts refuse [compliance], and most of them are defiantly disobedient.

Also from the Koran. The Koran is literally a large body of mixed messages. Nowhere does Christianity so flagrantly contradict itself as does the Koran.

 

I lol'd.

 

Actually.. for the most part their actions are in line with the teachings.. For those of us (Christians) who have lived many years in the Middle East, they are friendly and hospitable towards Christians.

 

The declining or vanished Christian populations of middle eastern countries says otherwise.

 

Your ignorance of Christ and the Bible is truly appalling as is your ignorance regarding the Koran and the Hadiths by which it is interpreted. For instance Christ says "You saw me hungry and you gave me something to eat. He does not say you saw me hungry and made sure Jane fed me. The goats aren't going to hell because they had no works but because the works they did they did to glorify themselves rather than to glorify God.

 

Mohammed said some, well, not so nice things about prepubescent little girls.

- - - Updated - - -

Link........

 

Well, If there were any Amalekites around, such verses might have some relevance to today. Stories from the past, specific to a particular time and place.

 

Both taught the message of peace and tolerance. In face, Muslims believe Mohammad to be the successor of Jesus so it is clear that the message is the same.

You do know about something called context? That is mostly about defensive wars or talking about specific battles. It is the same as saying that since US army inevitable kills in war therefore soldiers have the right to kill anyone they please.

Again, context is everything. You clearly have no idea about Islam do you?

And yet an entirely different standard is set for Muslims. the word you are looking for is hypocrisy.

 

The bible never says to "repeatedly turn the other cheek".

 

`​Thankfully God gave `most` people "a Brain" and `freedom of choice` when dealing with Obvious IGNORANCE and evil and allows them to stamp out such evil.....and Ignore the submissive ignorant ones...