Merkel offered to pay the debts of Ukraine at the expense of EU taxpayers

you really dont know about arbitrage?

 

What Greek Euro, they don't have any. The IMF has left them penniless for years, and to top it, the sanctions made them lose millions of tourists from Russia. The US also had them refuse to sell an industry to Russia when they were willing to pay twice as much as the next highest bidder, and I could go on and on. The Greek Prime Minister is now the most hated PM of any country in the world. .

I have an idea, why not have Ukraine's best friends Poland and Lithuania pay for the gas. They're the ones that need it the most. Has anyone noticed that the money given to Ukraine from Washington was never to help the people in Ukraine, but only to pay the army to kill Russian civilians in Donbas?

 

Elf if you mean the pricing of the gas, it was because Ukraine had defaulted on its payments. Russia is not to blame for that.

 

oh it's lie again.
Where did you get this inf?

 

I think Destroyer of Illusion's English is pretty good. How's your Russian?

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapo...-cuts-gas-supplies-as-ukraine-misses-payment/

 

Elf, did you ever think that maybe your government is lying to you, because it's beneficial to the ones in power?

 

asking again: where did you get info about `Ukraine had defaulted on its payments`?

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freemarket ignored

 

I didn't mean DOI's English. I found the linked article hard to follow.

Unfortunately I speak no Russian, but I don't see how my language skills are relevant to the discussion.

 

I tried to print up the quote for Elf about Ukraine defaulting, but I'm not a subscriber of Forbes, so please print it up so Elf will realize that it's the Ukrainian government that is lying.

 

I see. I apologize. I thought that you were referring to his comment. The relevance was in that English is his second language. It was sarcasm.

 

"6/16/2014 @ 7:41AM 1,238 views

Russia's Gazprom Cuts Gas Supplies As Ukraine Misses Payment
Russian natural gas firm Gazprom cut the amount of natural gas it was delivering to Ukraine due to at least $2 billion currently in arrears.

Last week, the Russian government offered Ukraine a chance to pay $1.95 billion in missed payments by June 16, a payment the cash strapped Ukraine was unlikely to make on such short notice. Russia tried sweetening the pot by offering a roughly $100 price cut from the current figure of $485 per 1,000 cubic meters. But over the weekend, with no payment in sight, Gazprom elected to reduce flows into Ukraine. It is a decision that could ultimately affect gas supplies into Europe. Some of Russia’s gas arrives in southern Europe through pipelines cutting through Ukraine.

Russian officials said Alexei Miller, Gazprom’s chief executive, and Energy Minister Alexander Novak would meet President Vladimir Putin later on Monday, Reuters reported today.

“Today, from 10:00 a.m. Moscow time, Gazprom, according to the existing contract, moved Naftogaz to prepayment for gas supplies,” Novak said about Ukraine’s natural gas supplier. As of Monday, Naftogaz will only receive natural gas it has paid for up front.

Gazprom asked Kiev to pay the $1.95 billion it owes in order to keep gas flowing on schedule. But Ukraine actually owes a lot more, according to the company. Gazprom said their debt for recent unpaid deliveries puts Ukraine closer to $4 billion in the hole.

Russia and Ukraine gas disputes date back to 2005, when payment defaults and allegations by Russia that the Ukrainian government was keeping European bound natural gas for themselves. The last time Russia fully cut gas supplies to Ukraine was in January 2009. Europe receives 80% of its Russian gas, a fifth of its total needs, from pipelines that run via Ukraine. Supplies to 18 countries in Europe have been disrupted after Gazprom cut off supplies.




Gazprom’s share price reacted to the contract dispute on Monday, declining a little over 1% in Moscow.

A map of Russian natural gas pipelines. Gazprom reduced flows of natural gas to Ukraine on Monday and threatens a full stop. Stoppage would affect natural gas deliveries in Europe. (Wikipedia graphic.)
A map of Russian natural gas pipelines. Gazprom reduced flows of natural gas to Ukraine on Monday and threatens a full stop. Stoppage would affect natural gas deliveries in Europe. (Wikipedia graphic.)

The multiple rounds of Ukrainian-Russian gas talks over the past weeks, including the latest one overnight, yielded no compromise as Russia refuses to continue negotiations. The European Union continues to play the lawyer in what is akin to an ugly Moscow-Kiev divorce, but their proposal to keep prices about $100 below market and get $1 billion in default payments has been rejected by Russia.

Gazprom insisted on the repayment of the bulk of gas arrears and filed a lawsuit with the Stockholm court, demanding $4.5 billion.

Meawnhile, Ukraine’s concurrent lawsuit demanded $6 billion in alleged over-payments for gas since 2009. However, notes Millie Asanovic, an emerging Europe equities analyst at Auerbach Grayson, says that would imply Ukraine views price discounts as unfair.

In terms of domestic consumption, the almost 14 billion cubic meters of gas Naftogaz currently has in its underground storage facilities will, together with domestic production, be enough to meet domestic demand through the summer and early fall, Asanovic said.

 

Freemarket printed it up for you, but it's common knowledge. If you go to google and type in 'Ukraine defaulting on gas payments', you will find out what's going on. Basically Ukraine has been blackmailing Europe. If Russia cuts off Ukraine's gas for lack of payment, they start stealing it from the European pipes.

 

https://www.google.com.ua/search?cl...s&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=ssl
there's nothing

would you like please to provide some links?

PS
freemarket ignored, as I already told

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...rises-13-misses-estimate-on-ukraine-debt.html

Gazprom added 144.5 billion rubles in the second quarter to a provision for doubtful trade accounts receivable, primarily from Ukraine. The company estimates Ukraine’s debt at $5.3 billion and is demanding $3.1 billion of that be paid by the end of the year in EU-brokered talks on resuming deliveries. The next talks are set for Oct. 21.

 

So where's there text about `Ukraine had defaulted on its payments`?

And btw did you read that `Gazprom, which supplies about 30 percent of the European Union’s gas, halted deliveries to Ukraine over a price and debt dispute`

So, what do you know about `price and debt dispute` between Gazprom and Naftogaz?

And provide please some links about `Ukraine's default on gaz payments`, otherwise you are the great lier again.

 

Well its a great way for centralized govts to control their free ranged slaves

 

If someone has a debt, it means they defaulted on their payment. A little common sense here. I didn't quote anything from the Russian newspapers because you would say they're lying, so I quoted from Bloomberg and Freemarket quoted from Forbes but you refuse to accept it and instead you prefer to call people liars...which by the way is against the rules of the forum.

Well let's see how it's going to feel when you start freezing, or are you going to say it's Putin's fault instead of putting the fault exactly where it lays, and that's with the criminals and murderers that are running your country.

Gazprom added 144.5 billion rubles in the second quarter to a provision for doubtful trade accounts receivable, primarily from Ukraine. The company estimates Ukraine’s debt at $5.3 billion and is demanding $3.1 billion of that be paid by the end of the year in EU-brokered talks on resuming deliveries. The next talks are set for Oct. 21.

 

No he was just forced to like Bavarian music to keep the gas flowing.

 

Well, I suppose there is a chance, however minuscule, that your country will manage to get out from under the thumb of the international banking cartel by rejecting consumerism and imposing fiscal discipline on your government, but if history is any guide, you will have some serious difficulties in achieving that goal.

 

I think it is useless to explain the obvious things to the people who wear saucepans on their heads. Let them get in this dung, the more robust will be the convalescence of Ukraine from this madness in the future.

 

People of conscience must speak out agains the evil of the US empire. They are destroying our liberties at home and killing millions of innocents abroad. The young generations in America are waking up this fact. We will not be quiet any longer!!!

 

And, by the way, the two are not unrelated.

 

Don'tchya Just Corporationism​

Those who produce the best killing machines on the globe have their stock going up as their profits do too.
Not just for R & D, but to replace those spent bombs and missiles.
Does anyone doubt their lobby has fostered the warism of America these last presidencies.
RepubloCratic Foreign Policy = Corporatationism.
It is like a Communist nightmare of world wars fostered for capitalism's profits.


Will America ever recapture its' "Goodness" or
are we doomed to the Corporate State bent on profits for some.
I mean it. America has been on El Diablo Real / The Devil's Highway/Road for too long.
Can we find the exit ? Not while voters remain cowardly in their choices.
Cowardly voters produced the longest run of 2 term presidents since the founders.
And this run was not a mark of Presidential quality. It was cowards voting.

Vote Your Heart, even if it means voting for a looser or throwing away your vote on a Third Party.
Not voting is truly the only way to throw away a vote ! And among RepubloCrats There is no lesser Evil.

RepubloCrats = Corporationism = warism, whether it is Obama, Bush or Bubba Clinton too. ​

Moi
Ukraine was a West tax supported
"market grab" Nada about
FREEDOM

r > g
What Ukraine's about.

View attachment 30800
A "good" Invasion​

 

You are absolutely right. But sometimes common sense is powerless. Ukraine has gone mad. The symptoms of this insanity were visible long before Maidan of this year. I remember discussions in Russian-speaking Internet in this regard between Russian and Ukrainian users. As a response to the obvious arguments we got insults or stupid counter-arguments only. There is a certain specificity of this country and the people. First of all, they believe in the existence of comprehensive freebie. They are sure someone who is very kind will feed and will give to drink them all. From the very beginning of its independence, this nation was under total propaganda. Now they sincerely believe that the EU is something like paradise. It is useless to explain EU is the structure with a clear hierarchy, where everything has the only intended place. The place of Ukraine is the place of supplier of cheap labor, cleaners, janitors and so on. Especially since no one is going to join Ukraine into the EU. But for the sake of this ephemeral dream, they are willing to lose everything they have.

There are many sensible people there, but they are in the minority. Now these people just fear to speak. Ukraine must swim in this dung, just in this way it will understand obvious things and will cure of insanity. Unfortunately I do not see any other way.

 

I am afraid you are correct. And yet, we have Novorossia. I hope Novorossia will not be allowed to perish under pressure from the west.