The United States is NOT a Christian Nation...

Exactly. And there's no compelling state interest to ban religious displays either. What I'm saying is that in those cases where a thing might be banned, religious reasons cannot be automatically disqualified from that process. I'm not saying that religious reasons are a valid reason to go ban everything. They are not, just like any non-religious reasons are not a valid reason for going around and banning everything. What I'm saying is that religious and non-religious views are to be equal to the state, and that both kinds of views play by the exact same rules in any process.

 

Ignorant, superstitious? Of what exactly?

 

A little convoluted, but in essence, I agree. I note you ignored my main point regarding choice of system and its obvious historical reality.

 

One of the first actions of Congress was to appoint a Chaplain to lead off each session of Congress with a prayer. The above is NOT what it meant to those who wrote our Constitution.

 

Everything. A world without logic and reason is world of ignorance and superstition.

 

So you would have no problem with the Church of Satan putting up a display on the lawn of your state capitol or Muslims putting quotes from the Quran in your local courthouse?

 

Not if the majority of the people were satanists or muslims, no. Again, what I'm saying isn't that government should put up religious displays because they are religious. I'm saying that if the people wants to put up something, they should be allowed to even if it's religious. I'm saying that wheter or not it's religious shouldn't be a factor in that decision process.

 

That's easy to say when you are the majority, quite different when you are not. The thing is that our rights are guaranteed by the Constitution and are not subject to the whims of the majority. There is a quote that is misattributed to Ben Franklin but it says it all. “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.”

 

Oh you're right. I would be so terribly offended by public christmas trees if I was a muslim.

But seriously though, yes, the constitution does protect your rights. What right is it that's being violated here? The right to not suffer christmas trees? I don't see where that's written.

 

The government doesn't get to play favorites, it's everybody or nobody. (On a side note, 7 of the 10 Commandments are Unconstitutional.)

 

How would that be playing favourites? What I'm saying is that in the process of deciding what (if anything) should be on public display, all religions (and non-religious whatevers) should be equal. That the process is equal does not mean that the results are to be equal. Do you understand that difference?

 

I'm saying if they ALLOW a christian nativity scene on the front lawn of city hall (paid for by others as using government is inappropriate and Unconstitutional), they have to allow ANY group who makes a request.

 

I would call America a secular country.

 

It's not a matter of them simply allowing theem. You can't just offer public land to anyone who asks. If there a big part of thd people who'd like to see a christmas tree though, that's another matter and it doesnt mattet its reöigious.

Edit: point being: it doesnt matter what kind of group it is thats asking. What matter is what the people wan.

 

Sure you can. The Capital Building in the State of Florida had Christian displays, a Festivus tree, a Church of Satan display, and probably others. The Court told them if the allow the christian display, they must permit anyone, at least until they run out of room. They were all privately funded, btw.

A "christmas tree" has become a secular symbol.

 

Some of you guys need to read up on your history and stop using postmodern ACLU-defined interpretations of constitutionalism.

Remember that John Jay wasn't just a Founding Father. He was the first Chief Justice of the United States. So this statement came from the head of the Supreme Court.

 

Id say America has a secular government. Probably the most religous nation among majority Christian Nations.

 

agreed, I no more want to see "In NO God we trust" then "In God we Trust", the gov should remain neutral

we have Muslims in this country as well, we have almost every religion, were a nation of many beliefs....

.

 

omg, a Christian said that, so it must be true....

"Judge James DeWeese: God, Not Citizens, Decide the Law"

http://atheism.about.com/b/2008/08/22/judge-james-deweese-god-not-citizens-decide-the-law.htm

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/loving.html

"Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And, but for the interference with his arrangement, there would be no cause for such marriage. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix."
-Judge Leon M. Bazile (January 6, 1959)



.

 

was Jesus ever mentioned in any of the founders documents?

http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/summer97/secular.html

""Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination." "

 

Not really sure what you're trying to prove there. None of that contradicted my post. The quote I just showed you came from the very first head of the Supreme Court. If anybody understands what qualifies as constitutional, it would be him.

 

Well, I was kinda imagening a situation where there'd be only one spot. Kind of like a small plaza in a small town, where'd there could be a christmas tree. My little town is just like that.

And that just shows how silly all of this is. No, a christmas tree is not secular. Its as religious as can be. That anti-religious people WISH it wasn't religious doesn't make it so. It has "christ" in it for heaven's sake. Why can't people just live with that religion is all around us and that it cannot be gotten rid of without tearing apart our culture? Trying to remove religion from culture is like trying to remove the flour or egg from a cake. it is impossible, and more importantly, not even desirable.

Oh my god.. I can't imagine how many things you must be bothered by. "The days are named after pagan gods, we must rename them!! Some months are named after roman gods, rename them!! Lady justice is a roman godess!! The rod of asclepius (symbols of medicine) is greek religion!! christmas has "christ" in it, rename it, otherwise it can't be a national holiday!!! AD and BC refers to christ, we must use CE and BCE!!"

There really are endless things for you to be bothered about. Me personally, find it all very silly. I'm an atheist, but I don't care AT ALL about religious references. Why do you even care? Are you being oppressed by christmas trees? By lady justice? By "thursday"? come on