The death sentence for attempted murder? Are you pretending to be Rip Van Winkle? In your ghoulish dreams.
You should have thought of that before you went for Brexit having told the Scottish people the only way they could guarantee staying in the EU was to say No to Independence. Tough luck now. A recent poll put a strong majority for another Independence vote if Brexit comes to be and May said her reason for not giving such before was that she believed there was not such a majority. Besides of which the Tories are quite happy for Scottish Independence and renewed violence in NI as long as they get their hard Brexit. English Nationalism will be what destroyed the UK and you have done the harm already. https://www.heraldscotland.com/news...ld-have-independence-referendum-after-brexit/
I have you on ignore - you're 'bad news' for me. I mention it so you don't waste too much time trying to bring me around to your way of thinking. Like that'll ever happen?
You don't have me on ignore. You spend your time insulting me believing the time has come when you can act tough as if you were ever someone. You offer nothing to this forum but insults and are incapable of an intelligent reply. The fact that you try to pretend how 'tough' you are illustrates how helpless you have been in your life. I understand why you are alone.
After no deal Brexit https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-as-may-prepares-to-address-mps-politics-live
I notice how March has become some kind of unalterable date in Mays mind and this has been spread around the media so that if it is postponed there is going to be an outcry. This is clearly a false construct, we should be extending Article 50 while we negotiate a decent deal.
It would be very hard, because most of them belong to the eurozone. I think there is many people who would wish to leave EU, without being able to do so.
Even without belonging to the Eurozone it is the next thing to impossible. Not only transactions directly with the EU but those we have with other countries which were authorised by the EU will no longer be there for a country leaving. and then new trade transactions taking about 7 years to make!!! All the more reason why people should get involved in changing the EU to what suits them from within as is happening with Diem 25 I wish the UK would be honest about our situation rather than trying to make it worse with a No Deal with the pathetic belief that that will have the EU at our feet begging us to allow them to give us all we want and more. With the UK another thing which has not been properly addressed is Democracy. Yes Leave won by 52 percent to 48. A very small lead. Now a democracy looks after all of its people and while this vote did win leave, decisions on how we should leave ought to have been made collectively. Instead the hard leavers demanded they be the only ones to set the process which must be done according to their desires which has brought us to this juncture and to a situation where Britain is ready to end the Union and it could even end up in civil war in England. Things to watch out for if France gets started!
I see the EU as a very negative institution, a tyranny of the bureaucracy and lobbying which managed to take some appearance of democracy. There is already many problems when someone is already directly elected by the people, because an election is made on promisses and perceptions. It's not a process ruled by reason, but by feelings and a prioris. There is few media coverage on what happen on the european parliamant. That's quite problematic because a democracy is based on information, and in France, I can say there is no information on the european government. The european parliamant itself is a parody of a parliamant, it has very few power and can be ignored by the european institutions most of the time. It exist for the same reason an actor will wear a white coat during a commercial, to look like a scientist. How could people doubt there is a democracy ? There is an election and a parliamant. Most of the power in EU are held by people nominated by elected people, such at the european comissar. Those people may have institutionnal legitimity, but no democratic one. EU was maybe based on beautifull dreams of peace and unity, but in the end for me it's the rule of corporations against the peoples. The british traded immediate comfort for more long term freedom, and possible prosperity. From my point of view, UK took a good decision by leaving.
and my point is that if as you say leaving is impossible and if you want changes then the best course of action is working to get the changes you want. There is already Diem 25 doing that so there is already somewhere where people who want change can join with others. The whole idea of democracy is that if you want change you can take non violent action to achieve it. As far as you being pleased with the UK ref. This sounds emotional. I don't think anyone believes it can make the situation in the UK anything but worse. The point is trying to limit the damages.
Gosh, how old are you ? The death penalty was abolished for murder in most of the UK in 1965 (1973 in Northern Ireland). In 1957 it was restricted to murder under the following circumstances: Prior to that: https://www.historyextra.com/period/20th-century/a-brief-history-of-capital-punishment-in-britain/ Either you have misremembered attempted murderers being sentenced to death or you're at least 160 years old.....
Most countries doesn't manage to change themselves with democracy, so seeking to change an organization like EU with democracy, I doubt it is possible. If there were a way for France to leave EU, I would support it. But right now, the situation is too complicated without risking some serious troubles which would make the one are living the UK for children stories. Despite the fact I dislike democracy, I still prefer it to a dictatorship or a bureaucracy like EU. EU is the rule of free trades and plutocracy, we disagree on most things, but I doubt that we disagree on our reject of free trade deals and plutocracy. The EU always pretended to improve the situation of the countries which are in it, that's decades they pretend to do that, that's decades they're failing. The only countries which managed to get something positive from that is Germany and the eastern europe countries Yes it's a challenge for UK to leave EU, but the same could been said if you leave a compagny which harass their employes. It's short term financial discomfort for an improvement of the situation on the long term.
Post deleted. Why can't I find an option on edit to delete a post immediately after it has been posted?
Post deleted. Why can't I find an option on edit to delete a post immediately after it has been posted?
You can delete a post only if it's the last post, the option is on the bottom left, just right of your name and the time since you posted.
You leave by leaving. If you're a member of a snooker club and your decision is to leave based on a 52% feeling to 48% feeling, then your membership is terminated. You don't "deal" on the rules of the club. "Er, can I leave but still keep the keep to get cheaper drinks but not pay the membership?". I hope France leaves in the future but they don't have the nerve.
That's what I wrote in an email to my MP recently - the referendum question was 'in' or 'out', and didn't include a third option centred around one of May's suspicious deals.
Representative Democracy is Democracy. I agree that since the 80's and the introduction of neo liberalism and the privatization of everything including much of the Government, leaving the Government only interested in finance, people have felt they cannot have an effect on Government. When you add onto that the destruction of Unions, it can seem there is little way to have an affect. However we do still have a vote and we do still have most of the rights of a democratic society. It is perfectly possible to work for change through such means as well as, if necessary civil disobedience. One of my politics tutors at college would always say if there was something you were unhappy about and you did not work to change it, do not complain about it - and that is what is needed for Democracy to work. Tocqueville believed that for democracy to work, people must be interested in it, meeting in pubs and what not to discuss it. This to a large extent has stopped but if people want democracy that is what they need to start doing again. People must get involved in Politics again as they did in Scotland during the Indyref. That is democracy working. We agree on that and I would go further and say that at this time it is imperative that we start acting politically again. Free Trade Deals, not really sure what the are as they seem to change from time to time and I am not an economist. The problem however is Neo Liberalism a system which appears now to be gradually reintroducing a feudal kind of system. Nothing is deemed important except money. Ethics as a word will soon be out of the dictionary.....and Global Warming is on course to make any land south of the Scotland/England border uninhabitable by the end of this century. What is driving this destruction of the planet? Neo Liberalism and putting making money as the only thing of real importance. Nothing can be more important than sorting that out now. It is what we all need to have as our first priority if we are going to be able to reduce the effects to avoid our extinction. The EU needs changes and as I said they are being worked on but I would put Neo Liberalism at the top of the pile. When that is dealt with it will be far easier to bring into line other things. We do not know that. We do know that in the beginning with a No Deal it is going to be pretty catastrophic and my reading is that that will see a decline over several years. How or to what extent we might recover no one knows. The UK was not part of the Euro. the UK was not part of Schengen. It was agreed the UK would not be part of further political Union. The UK got a special reduced deal on what it paid to the EU - really despite many changes which I believe are necessary in the EU and which DIEM 25 are working for, it looks more to me that the UK has chosen to look a gift horse in the mouth
But what is democracy ? Power to the people. The so-called representative democracy is a renouncment of the people to power in profit of individuals which were elected on a marketing and commercials campaign. Representative democracy is just a temporary oligarchy and the renouncement of the people to have power. They renounce to the power in profit of individuals for 4, 5 years. Elections doesn't favor people which are faithfull to the people, but people which are good at elected. People which are good at bonding to the power of the medias, good at seducing, lying and pleasing. Potentially, someone faithfull to the people could manage to have those qualities too. I don't see hope for positive change in elected politician, I see hope in people like Doctor Mukwege, Henri Grouès, Martin Luther King or much less known Vincent Dumestre. None of them are elected politicians. By the way, personnal action is the first step for change, but right now I doesn't trust any institutions anymore to waste my energy in political investment. Furthermore, all of our civilization is based on consummerism, non renewable energy and rare raw materials. Our civilization is entering in crisis because we start slowly but surely to lack of those materials. I see a direct link between the crisis of our consummerist civilization and our political crisis. This energetic crisis will only become worse. Should I really says what I think will happen then in the political fields ? Yes. But I think it's too late to avoid any collapse of societies in the incoming decades. Maybe I'm too much pessimistic, I always was rather pessimistic, we can only prepare to that collapse, and to what to build after. I always expressed my point of view, the EU won't change. Maybe if they face an immediate risk of destruction, but we're not at that point. There is something shocking for me about the french revolution, the nobility could prevent to be what they were, and their behaviour was unbearable to the commoners. There is some institutions, models, that can prevent themselves to be what they are, even if what they are will lead them to their own collaspe, such was the case of the roman empire, the french nobility, the easter islands civilization and I would add to that list the consummerist civilization and the EU. Beyond EU, there is a lot of relations to different matters which will have to change in our civilization, the difficulties that represent leaving the EU will be a joke considering the future difficulties mankind will meet. Those difficulties will force UK to change deeply, that kind of difficulties can be blessings if you manage to hand the opportunity it give. It's much easier to says than to realize however. "difficulties strengthen the mind, as labor does the body".
No, that is how it has been misused. The neo cons, economists and so on who Thatcher and Regan followed did not believe in Democracy. It would have been impossible to bring in neo liberalism if they had believed in Democracy as in order for a Democracy to survive, capitalism has to be kept in check, If not then the Government ends up serving the Plutocrats rather than the people. That is how it worked in the US and the UK. I think it was a bit later and different, not so bad, in France. I've written in another post how an attempt to get the UK firmly into a strong Democracy in the 80's and 90's when they could see it was going wrong was lost by John Smith dying and Tony Blair putting his flag on Corporate Power rather than British Democracy. http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/after-brexit.549428/#post-1070126741 We need to remember that we are all very young democracies. I don't think France had Universal Suffrage until around 45 - that is including the vote for all women. The UK did not have it until 1928 so we really are very young at Democracies and many people believe we had not truly become them before the 80's 90's saw them falling apart. Yes, which is why you need to have and enforce very strict rules on funding. I don't think the US even bothers trying on that and I am not sure how much of a democracy the US ever was. Certainly you are showing abuse of the system. However I would suggest the way forward would be working to correct that and other issues. People like MLK have an extremely important place. Chris Hedges talks about protest and how it works and he says that when those in power become afraid they change. MLK I think did achieve that although he himself was killed. It is a hard thing to achieve though. Hedges gives hints at his site. We are likely to see as democracy comes undone things like peaceful protest less and less allowed, calling people who go on them 'terrorists' and what not which is why Hedges makes clear it is very important to treat the police on these demonstrations well, to have talks with them when you can and get their agreement - once the Government starts wondering if the police are going to do what they are told, change begins. OK glad to hear you think that. There are people who are trustworthy, though I am not so sure with some of your beliefs this is so but if you want things like proper Democracy, rule of the people by the people for the people, if you want rid of neo liberalism and also Climate Disaster then DIEM 25 would be trustworthy though I think there are better places to look at Climate Disaster. Chris Hedges is great and extremely trustworthy on these things too. (it is when you get to your ideas on Muslim s and so on I think you might find you did not fit in so much) but DIEM 25 still are doing work on both democracy and neo liberalism within the EU and now further afield, the Americas and have said they are there for people despite their political opinion. Which brings us to the issue of Climate Disaster again. I think the psychology behind what you write comes from neo Liberalism and it has completely forgotten acting from a strong ethical base, avoiding wars if possible, working for the good of all and so on. These are the things we used to care about in the 70's and 80's and to a lesser degree up until 9/11. That was the big change. I do not think that neo liberalism and a future for humanity go together. Hence for survival I think we need to move to a more socialist and ethical way of living. I don't have problems with some degree of capitalism but believe it must always be held under strong regulation (and taxes) and must never be allowed to become so strong it replaces democracy with plutocracy - which it has at the moment. Consumerism is very much tied to neo liberalism. It is all our Politicians offer us now, but it wasn't always like that and it does not need to always be like that. We have got to the situation where it is no longer possible to avoid some consequences. I have only started seriously studying it myself. One of the things I heard was that if we could get the top 10% of the world to reduce their carbon footprint to the average in the EU, damage would be reduced by 33%. Things they were suggesting was people refuse to go to conferences by air. Might be fun but it is now quite possible to do them by the internet without causing this carbon damage..so no I do not think it is as yet in any way impossible to stop the worst damage but it is going to demand waking up our Government who the people I was listening to say are very difficult to get to listen and it does demand we change our lifestyle massively through also things like what we eat and so on. Like I say I am just learning on this. It is imperative it be done but the damage can be limited dependent on how quick we try and how effectively we respond. You could look for a good group working on climate change and work from there but as I said I do not believe that neo liberalism and a future for humanity go hand in hand. Yes, that does seem to be how Empires die. You must though have something for that moment when the time is right if you do not want chaos. That is what Diem25 is working for., I will leave that for now.
....just thinking about how long it would take and much would it cost Scotland to establish 1) Diplomatic relations with the 195 odd countries of the world 2) Establish a UN mission 3) Gain WTO status 4) Establish trade relations with the world 5) Gain membership to the EU etc. etc. etc. in short getting recognition from world governments and major international organizations etc. etc. etc. and a spot on the Eurovision Song Contest...imagine the cost to the Scots if you won it!! Setting up on your tod requires a wee bit of cash and not something that can be done over a dram at the Tappit Hen on a Thursday night!
Scotland as a country is well liked. Norway is not going to be screaming that we cannot join EFTA. Iceland even offered us the use of their currency last time. No, a No Deal Brexit is going to cost Scotland Fourteen Billion pounds a year and even a soft one quite a lot. Think we are going to sit around watching English Nats ruining England. No way. Even a soft Brexit would hit Scotland hard.
