It's official: The US government is a criminal syndicate that is simply unable to investigate itself

Technically you are right about the Koch's and Trump during the 2016 campaign as but do you think there has ever been another administration that has served their interests in terms of deregulation, tax cuts and gutting the EPA? There is going to be drilling in the Arctic Wildlife Refuge. The Koch's hate his tariffs and vulgarity but love everything else and they supported Republicans during the midterms.

You should become more familiar with the term. The beast is on the rise



I think I will make that mistake. Your analysis above does not comport with reality, so I feel free to discount it.[/QUOTE]

 

You don't know if there has been any fraud, you want to investigate to try and dig some up.

Why don't you wait for fraud to be committed first, then investigate whether he was guilty of it?

That is how our system works.

You don't just launch an investigation into someone because you think there might be something there.

What if I say we should investigate you because I think you've cheated on your taxes?

That's all I got, no actual evidence of anything being wrong but I bet if we looked we would find something.

Would you be ok with that?

 

[/QUOTE]

Not sure why you guys bring up the Koch bros. so much, they are on the low end of big donors.

I don't think they even made the top 50 last year.

Plus they also donate heavily to left wing groups also as long as it supports their agenda.

 

But Spooky, that is just not true is it? I have investigated the evidence and there is reams of it if one is willing to look at it with an open mind rather than obfuscate, distract and deny that it exists.

I have tried to document every accusation I have made in the three links on this thread alone - none of which you have taken the time to read or comment on. All three links are referenced to highly credible sources who are quoted on the record throughout. As well there is a summary throughout of the illegality of many of Trump's real estate holdings such as the Taj Mahal $10 million - the largest fine in NJ at the time for fraud and money laundering.

The New Republic piece documents how throughout the nineties, money flowed into Trump's real estate holdings from Russian mobsters and oligarchs seeking to cleanse dirty money from the sale of Russian state assets to mobsters and mafia.

The links reference work from respected investigative journalists such as Robert Freidman, an expert on Russian mafia and David Cay Johnston, Pulitzer Prize winning journalist who has documented in full Trump's career since the 1980's and his father's before that.

If you would care to read, you would find that it is public record that known figures from Russian organized crime were pouring untold millions into Trump's real estate holdings at at time when no reputable banks would lend him money due to his incompetence, mismanagement and multiple bankruptcies. These included such notorious figures as David Bogatin who was later indicted for money laundering,
Semian Mogilevich, one of the most powerful figures in the Russian Mafia figures and knownconfidant of Vladimir Putin.

In fact 13 figures with ties to the Russian underworld owned multiple properties or lived in the Trump properties and were even running criminal enterprises out of places like Trump Soho. These included know members of the Bratva or Ukrainian Brotherhood and criminal oligarchs such as Vyachelslav Ivankov and Felix Komorov.

I have also documented how Russian money flowed into the Trump organization through shell companies hidden under the Bayrock Group run by Russian underworld figure and Trump business associate, Felix Sater who is set to testify this week.

So, far from being no evidence, there is a mountain of documented and credible evidence that shows when Trump was in dire financial shape due to bankruptcies, mismanagement and terrible credit, a who's who of Russian mafia figures and oligarchs literally saved Trump and allowed him to rebrand as a phony real estate tycoon and reality TV celebrity.

It is all there. Just because you refuse to read it or acknowledge it does not mean it isn't there. You are following the Trump playbook to a key. Deny, Deny Deny and if that doesn't work, attack the source.

Yes, typically authorities begin to investigate organizations and people such as Trump because they think there might be something there. That is how criminal justice is supposed to work.

I haven't cheated on my taxes but if I had, and the authorities thought there was something there, they would probably investigate and that would be fair game - again how the justice system works.

I saw a statement of yours on another thread. I'm paraphrasing, but it went something like, "if there is something to investigate, then they should consider all the evidence no matter what the source." Do you remember saying that?

How does that ring true with your willfully ignoring all the documented evidence of Trump's deep business ties to Russian oligarchs and underworld figures going back to the eighties?
Clearly you are being ingenious in stating that I am making hollow accusations and there is no evidence of anything wrong.

You could at least read the links and evaluate the evidence before commenting on my motives. Here is just one quote from the New Republic article quoting business week:

"As Bloomberg Businessweek reported earlier this year, it wasn’t long before one-third of the units on the tower’s priciest floors had been snatched up—either by individual buyers from the former Soviet Union, or by limited liability companies connected to Russia. “We had big buyers from Russia and Ukraine and Kazakhstan,” sales agent Debra Stotts told Bloomberg.


Sunny Isles, Florida, became known as “Little Moscow,” thanks to Trump’s high-rises.Rhona Wise/AFP/Getty
Among the new tenants was Eduard Nektalov, a diamond dealer from Uzbekistan. Nektalov, who was being investigated by a Treasury Department task force for mob-connected money laundering, bought a condo on the seventy-ninth floor, directly below Trump’s future campaign manager, Kellyanne Conway. A month later he sold his unit for a $500,000 profit. The following year, after rumors circulated that Nektalov was cooperating with federal investigators, he was shot downon Sixth Avenue.

Trump had found his market. After Trump World Tower opened, Sotheby’s International Realty teamed up with a Russian real estate company to make a big sales push for the property in Russia. The “tower full of oligarchs,” as Bloomberg called it, became a model for Trump’s projects going forward. All he needed to do, it seemed, was slap the Trump name on a big building, and high-dollar customers from Russia and the former Soviet republics were guaranteed to come rushing in. Dolly Lenz, a New York real estate broker, told USA Today that she sold some 65 units in Trump World Tower to Russians. “I had contacts in Moscow looking to invest in the United States,” Lenz said. “They all wanted to meet Donald.”

To capitalize on his new business model, Trump struck a deal with a Florida developer to attach his name to six high-rises in Sunny Isles, just outside Miami. Without having to put up a dime of his own money, Trump would receive a cut of the profits. “Russians love the Trump brand,” Gil Dezer, the Sunny Isles developer, told Bloomberg. A local broker told The Washington Post that one-third of the 500 apartments he’d sold went to “Russian-speakers.” So many bought the Trump-branded apartments, in fact, that the area became known as “Little Moscow.”"

 

Not sure why you guys bring up the Koch bros. so much, they are on the low end of big donors.

I don't think they even made the top 50 last year.

Plus they also donate heavily to left wing groups also as long as it supports their agenda.[/QUOTE]

How the Koch Bros, built the most powerful right-wing group you've never heard of:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...cans-for-prosperity-rightwing-political-group

With all due respect, Spooky, you need to do a little research before commenting on these things. Have you read Jane Mayer's "Dark Money." That would be a good place to start if you are really interested in these types of subjects.

 

In a way, I hope you are right but if that is to happen, they better come up with better strategy. If they stick with the utter failures of 2016 and the Russia, Russia, Russia memes of the investigation, you may be disappointed again - alas.

 

I agree the dems should let 2016 go, keep an eye out for Russia, and run on health care, improving and protecting Obama's economic recovery, and the failure of the GOP.

 

Wow, are Russian people going to speak in 2016?

 

I think they let him off the hook for collusion because they are going after him for money laundering. Deutsche Bank investigation is still ongoing.

 

I think there was plenty of evidence for obstruction - not so sure about collusion. There is certainly a reason why Putin was so eager to have Trump win the election but did he actually interfere in the election beyond what governments, including the US do all the time? Not so sure.

The house has all the material it needs to pursue further investigation into criminality in the Trump organization. The question is does it have the competence and political will to go forward?

I think all the focus on collusion during the campaign has weakened their position and allowed Trump's followers a huge propaganda victory to shout "witch hunt" about any further investigation.

Also there is the question of other skeletons that my turn up if they really start to investigate criminality all through the system.

We will see but if they want to actually go forward they need to rethink their strategy and figure out an end game and how further investigation will actually help them win in 2020.

 

Has been the case for decades. It has also been working for Wall Street throughout.

 

Some great points.

But belongs in Opinion.

 

So, are you paid to be crazy or just locked up?

 

Yes, it's part of the human condition, no doubt.

The OP made many excellent points, but failed to mention that both Mueller and Barr are government men, interested mostly in maintaining the status quo.

Mueller's role in protecting the Saudis in the 911 fiasco is known, and Barr played a similar and significant role in covering up Bush & Co and other crooks in the Iran-Contra fiasco.

 

So you think Mules spent 25million and had the goods but let him go to have someone else get him??? Wow just wow.

 

Who knows... Mueller was investigating "collusion" not sure he had the mandate to go further. Investigated for one thing then saying... you're innocent but I kinda found something else... that would certainly be a witch hunt.

 

He may agree with you "basically" (whatever the hell that means) but our friend EarthSky is a socialist and you know what that means.

Talk is cheap. Anyone can piss and moan about government crimes and corruption but if they want more government they're part of the problem, not the solution.

The only people who have the solution to this problem are the people who want to reduce the power, size and expense of government to a minimum.

 

If you conclude government is corrupt, you should take the position that we need to keep government as small as possible and limit the damage it does.

Anyone who argues government is corrupt so we need MORE government clearly doesn't have both oars in the water.

 

Sounds like an Authoritarian move the likes of Soviet Russia. I am sure you would support it.

 

You have no idea what is "Authoritarian", HB Surfer. It is nothing more than a far right talking term.

 

It's not an easy task investigating criminality where no criminality exists. Maybe if Mueller had started with the Clinton/Deep State cabal, he would have had better luck.

 

^^If that assertion were true, but it is not. Many criminals and crimes were uncovered. The many other state and fed investigations will find much more.

 

Which just betrays your own ignorance of the term.

 

No doubt he would. To be a "progressive" is to be an authoritarian.