We broke all records of cases, deaths, and hospitalizations today

If you really believe your last sentence, you are not informed, you are indoctrinated. There is a difference you know.

 

Well Yeah.. that is exactly what I am saying .. We have not implemented anything close to a full lock down - and barely a partial one.

My point here is that going around hand waving about masks - while getting together with friends and family on a regular basis - doesn't cut it. "well you can still go to Church but only 1/3 capacity" - at a place has a capacity of 1200. Good thing Church attendance is down these days ...

Lets put 400 people in an enclosed space - a few asymptomatic and don't know it in the crowd "but wearing a mask" - and let me know how that turns out - and repeat this experiment in every church ..large and small.

Pssst .. you .. Psssst .. .over here mate .. have ya heard the news - If you literally declare martial law - and fully lock down - you can flatten the curve in a month...and then relax somewhat .. but lets go 6 weeks for good measure.

Then if you like you can open back up - not fully but some semblance of normal back - maintaining the general rules about social distancing but still getting together .. going go church .. and so on.

If the thing rears up again .. you lock down again quick .. boom - red light .. lock it down -6 weeks.

Now perhaps there are other better ways - the above is one example which we know works.

What doesn't work is some kind of half lockdown - in areas where the fire is raging.

This is about me preferring one thing over another.. I hate the lockdown and favor different paths altogether .. but if we are talking "Science" - and what we know works - what else can I tell you ? Its all or nothing.

Not that it is pointless to "just wear a mask" - meaning half measures - "Im wearing a mask and sanitizing and and and -- but meeting up with friends over the weekend and Church on Sunday" - basic hygeine is important. Do try not to go around licking the door knobs of public washrooms .. and will slow the spread .. but this is a virus - that most of the folks who get infected are asymptomatic .. as high as 88% in one case of a meat packing plant .. and 94% in the case of a cruise ship..

We can stop it . (meaning slow it down to barely a crawl and if lucky eliminate) . or we can mildly slow its progression.

 

Tell me, how did the planners convince all 200+ nations in the world to play along with the conspiracy to get rid of Trump or what ever motive you ''think'' the plandemic was created for?
You honestly think the world is being plunged into financial meltdown deliberately for no reason?

 

Oh no, there are many reasons for this. Circumstantial evidence is already available showing that while many were punished and crushed financially, many were made richer. The CARES Act has made many people have greater profits. Jeff Bezos is but one example.

If you are really curious about this, you can partially inform yourself by viewing this: The Event 201 scenario | A pandemic tabletop exercise (centerforhealthsecurity.org)

Men have always colluded and conspired to cheat the system and improve their bottom lines. It's old news. If you don't understand that you're easily fooled.

 

So your argument is basically ''there have always been crooks therefore everything is crooked''?
...and I'm the fool?
I'm wasting my time here.
You're a hopeless cynic who takes on board only the information that supports your narrative.
I'm out, have a nice day.

 

Being truly "informed" requires a tinfoil hat, obviously.

 

Neither of us is offering argument here sir, we are having a discussion. Or not.

I enjoy discussions with people I don't agree with. Variety is the spice of life, but it's true you can lead a man to knowledge but you cannot make him think. Old news for me.

 

In your tortured mind that is probably the case. Not so in my view.

Invoking the tinfoil hat image is just another way to say "I have nothing of substance to offer, so I will practice micro slander"

 

God forbid anyone actually value the lives of their fellow Americans.

 

I've tried substance. The fringe conspiracy theorists who promote the "plandemic" idiocy don't care about substance. They care only for their pet theories. They are no different from the flat earthers, lunar landing deniers, holocaust deniers, etc.

 

Very wise words. It's good to meet here someone who actually thinks. Your screen name does justice to you, oh Gifted One! [CenterField bows down]

 

Yes, it's astonishing, what these people think. So, the idea is an international conspiracy to bring Trump down, huh? Well, how does it explain that countries with governments that are sympathetic to Trump, like Russia, the United Kingdom, Brazil, and Italy (all four with current rightist authoritarian governments that would all four like to see Trump reelected) are in just as much trouble or more as the United States??? What part of the suffix PAN in pandemic these people don't understand??? FYI, dear conspiracy theorists, PAN comes from the Greek and means "all, every, whole, all-inclusive." So, this thing is hitting ALL countries in the world... including right wing, centrist, and left wing governments; communist, socialist, and capitalist countries; democracies and dictatorships, republics and monarchies, and of the 215 countries and independent territories in the world, only ONE has a Donald J. Trump (thankfully for the other 214) but somehow, the pandemic is a conspiracy to bring Trump down??? Unbelievable.

 

Well, it seems to be that or a play by those companies doing well out of the crisis such as Amazon or Netflix.
A plot to destroy small businesses.
It's how they managed to unite the world in this plot that interests me. If there is a way to do this despite each nation suffering financial crashes then maybe there's hope for reducing CO2 emissions or halting the loss of wildlife and their habitat.

 

You are forgetting to include that it is also a plot to inject us with microchips inside the vaccines, that go directly to our brains and make slaves out of us; this is being done by George Soros and Bill Gates. Once the microchips are in, they will be activated by the 5G network. The solution is to wear tinfoil hats.

 

Oh that is yet to come for sure.
They're still getting plandemic and the tests don't work out of their systems at the moment though. That and ''stop the steal''.

 

I sense the smell of smoke being blown ... but will take it where I can get it ..

 

Oh, and the microchips will also make of us all, pedophiles, according to QAnon.

Now, the thing is, they are also targeting people by face recognition software in cameras like the traffic ones and the ATM ones. So, we need to tell all the people who scream MY FREEEEEDOMS and don't want to wear a mask, that masks defeat George Soros and Bill Gates because the face recognition software will fail. Mask up, people. Goggles also help to disguise you as they can't see your eyes well. So the fully prudent conspiracy theorist should wear masks, goggles, and tinfoil hats. That will teach Soros and Gates!!!

The above is the best ad for mask use ever. We'd solve the problem of maskless people if we got this message across. I need to call Joe Biden.

[CenterField dials] "Hey Joe? How are you doing, buddy? I'm doing great too; thanks. Great interview on CNN! Hey, you said you want Americans to wear masks for 100 days, right? I have a brilliant idea to convince the anti-mask-ers... Hear me out..." [CenterField explains the idea]. Yes, buddy, you're welcome. No, I am sorry but I can't accept your invitation to be your chief medical advisor. I know I'm good, but go with good old Fauci instead, will you? I don't like fame. I'm kind of shy. But hey, call me when you have any other doubts, OK? Have a nice day, Joe, and give my best to Jill and Kamala. Bye, now." [CenterField hangs up].

Done! Now, this will work!

 

No, I was serious. Your posts are good.

 

Very true.

Have you found any evidence that this virus hasn't killed almost 300,000 Americans since March, yet?

 

It seems in the last couple weeks I’ve posted a lot of content that makes me appear anti mask. I have been clear I am not. I’m just after truth on both sides.

I mentioned in one thread last week I had taken arrows for my promotion of masks by self proclaimed mask advocated. An action by the CDC this week prompts my revisitation of those interactions.

This thread calling attention to the severity of the pandemic at present seems tge best place to offer advice that can save lives and slow infection rates.

Here are a few posts from late summer where I attempted to get people to take mask wearing seriously, not just play at it.

In reply.

In reply.

Now, at the time I was called all kinds of unsavory names for recommending mask usage at home. This week the CDC grudgingly is catching up to where I was in late summer. They issued these recommendations.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/masking-science-sars-cov2.html

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/protect-your-home.html
And a pull quote:

Now that it’s clear I’m not anti mask and do know a bit about what I post, I encourage everyone, but especially people forced to lock down to consider mask usage in the home. It will profoundly shorten the time lockdown is needed. Of course I still think everyone could benefit—the facts clearly show I’m correct—but those in lockdown could greatly increase the positive effects of lockdown and shorten its duration drastically by utilizing masks as part of the home mitigation strategy.

Oh, I should add, our resident doc @CenterField (the OP) has made the good point to me the chances of infection today are likely greater for the average Joe today than in the spring and late summer. So the positive effects of mask mitigation in the home would be greater now than in late summer.

I saved my flame suit from August when I tried sharing this lifesaving information before so have at it folks!

 

In an honest and rational discussion, the person claiming such a number would be obligated to prove it.

The skeptical/intelligent person places no faith in numbers generated by a bogus test. He places no faith in the statements of known liars found in today's media. He is very skeptical of the claims of career bureaucrats with vested interests in the outcome. He considers such factors as financial inducements for dishonesty.

 

You are absolutely correct, 557. By the way when we previously discussed the use of masks inside one's household, I had already said that you made sense but I couldn't manage to keep my distance from my lovely wife. But now, with this surge and the increase in percentage of positive tests in my county (and in my hospital with more staff getting sick; my wife is also a doctor), my wife and I finally moved to being fully separated at home; she moved to another suite we have upstairs, and we alternate using the kitchen, talk via FaceTime, and when we have to share the same space, we both wear masks, turn the ceiling fan on, and turn a HEPA air purifier on. We are hopefully within a month of getting the vaccine so although it is tough and I miss her, it is more prudent this way, because if one of us catches the virus, it's less likely that the other one will get infected too. Then it's 4 weeks from the first dose of the vaccine to reach full immunity. Although it will be difficult, we will stay away from each other for these next 8 weeks.

I know that prudent people get attacked here all the time for supposedly being paranoid, or some sort of cowards. Well, my wife and I are no cowards. As we are quite wealthy by now, thanks to our decades of hard work in a high paying profession + inheritance when my father passed away, we can PERFECTLY afford to retire prematurely, so, if we were cowards, we'd be doing just that, like a colleague from the hospital just did (I don't blame him; he is in poor health and would likely die if he caught the virus - others have died in my hospital).

As for being paranoid, paranoia is defined as the fear of a DELUSIONAL danger; one that doesn't exist in real life. Well, the danger represented by the SARS-CoV-2 is very much real (and as you know, it's not just the case-fatality rate, but also the incidence of organ damage among those who survive it). The appropriate word that applies to someone trying to protected him/herself from a REAL danger is prudence, not paranoia.

So, those who mock us for being prudent are usually the same ones who also dismiss this virus as a little flu or even a hoax. Frankly, being of that opinion betrays such limited intellectual capacity and/or low information, that I actually WANT to be mocked and personally attacked by this kind of person, because if they all liked me and praised me, it wouldn't be good news. The people these persons admire are the worst people; I don't want to belong to that club. I much prefer to be liked and praised by intelligent and well-informed people. The others, I simply pity (because they are more likely to be harmed by this virus) and ignore.

 

Then I shall be the one worrying about your health for a change. I know what spousal support and human touch do to mitigate stress and you are both under a lot of stress. Not having contact with each other will exacerbate that stress’s affect on your health. I shall consult the “great physician” on your behalf.

I wouldn’t judge anyone for leaving the medical profession at this time. We need you all, but we need you next year as well! It sounds like you love your work. It’s hard to walk away from that. I’ll likely never retire and we’ve had the option for a while too. But if I was “retired” I’d still want to do what I’m doing. It’s fun. I doubt there’s much fun in pandemics except satisfaction of saving lives. I imagine that’s more rewarding than the money.

True. Being mocked by certain demographics is confirmation you’re doing things right!

 

I'm not sure I understand what point you're trying to make. But looks to me like in response to my comment:

Golem: "You wear a mask at home? That is ridiculous!"

You reply with a quote from the CDC

CDC: "...if you have household members who are more likely to get very sick from COVID-19 (older adults, people with specific medical conditions or who have to take extra precautions), consider wearing masks in shared spaces around others in your home."

The CDC does not make a blanket recommendation to wear masks at home. It recommends wearing them in shared spaces if you live with somebody with those particular conditions.

I'm happy that you came around to the fact that wearing masks in public is necessary. Hopefully you also abandoned your previous "herd immunity by mass infection" claims too. But let's not go to the other extreme. If there are too many recommendations that are too stringent or unrealistic, many people are likely to not take any of the most necessary ones seriously.

If you live with somebody who is infected, that person should isolate in a room in the house. The non-infected people should take precautions, wear a mask when interaction is unavoidable, disinfect the common areas the infected person has used, ... and so on. And if you live with somebody with the conditions to get very sick if they are infected (elderly, medical conditions, etc) the CDC now wants you to consider maybe wearing a mask when you interact with them. It could definitely save their life.

But a blanket recommendation to everybody to wear a mask at home at all times has not been issued, is uncalled for, unrealistic and is not advisable. It might even have the opposite effect of people getting so fed up with masks that they become complacent even when they should be wearing them.

Just know when the appropriate moments to wear one are, and when it's not necessary. No need to go to either extreme. Just follow the guidelines as written, and don't try to make new ones that, in some cases, might have the opposite effect to the intended one.

 

You say that you are not anti-mask but then you wrote this: "I think the most dangerous aspect of masks is the false sense of security they produce in certain demographics. Implicit trust in them promotes less social distancing and more needless interactions in public. I think those more negative implications outweigh their protective qualities."

So it certainly is not clear