Donald Trump indicted on 7 counts in classified documents probe

Nothing at all to be sorry about Sandy.
The saving grace is the election is 1.5 yrs away.

For what it's worth.
56% to 43%

June 16, 2023

The Trump Indictment
NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist National Poll

Republicans Stand Firm Behind Trump Although Majority of Americans Want Trump to Drop Out of 2024 Presidential Race


'In light of former President Donald Trump’s indictment by a Florida grand jury, Trump’s GOP base remains steadfast in its support for the former president. Most Republicans believe Trump should remain in the race, and his favorability among Republicans and Republican-leaning independents remains strong. However, a majority of Americans think Trump should drop out of the 2024 presidential contest.'

cont:
https://maristpoll.marist.edu/polls/the-trump-indictment/

 

Here is the problem. If Trump gets re-elected, he will literally re-write history.

First, even if he is convicted and an appeal is pending, he will order the DOJ to drop the case. If the AG refuses, Trump will fire him until he gets an AG who will not oppose any appeal.

Second, he will trumpet his re-election as a vindication of all his prior criminal acts, including the Insurrection.

Third, he will legitimize being a criminal.

And his MAGA following will cheer every step of the way.

Can you imagine how this country could have produced such vile creatures? I am at a complete loss.

 

wrong thread

 

Good question about the fingerprints on the document trove that he took.

 

Bizarrely it might almost be in Trumps best interest if he was put on trial (and if found guilty be sentenced) before the next election, but there's almost zero chance of that happening. It would be a 'good' thing for Trump because nothing in the Constitution prevents a convicted felon from serving as President (even from a jail cell) and once elected, as sure as night follows day he would attempt to pardon himself. And you can bank of the fact that by time the political and legal arguments over that decision finally got resolved his term would almost be over!

That said the chances of the trial commencing before the 24 election is almost zero because if they choose to his lawyers can spin the trial or any appeal process out until after the election is concluded. This would put him in the position of potentially having to be sentenced (if convicted) while in office.This, as far as I am aware an issue upon which both the Constitution and the Supreme Court are silent (let the fun and games commence). It would therefore be open for Trump to argue that he can't stand trial or be convicted while in office. Of course at the same time as this was being argued in court whoever he appoints to the relevant Cabinet positions will of course be doing their damnedest to have the document case (any other prosecution they can get their claws into) abandoned/withdrawn.

Conclusion? If Trump wins in 2024 his Presidency is going to look and function like an episode of that old TV comedy Soap. So sit down, grab your popcorn and enjoy the show.

 

The classified documents case is a federal case, and defense lawyers do not have the ability to "spin the trial" or "any appeal process" -- though I'm not certain what you mean by that -- in a federal case as they might be able to do in a state court before elected judges. It may very well happen, of course, that the trial begins after the election, and it may happen that the appeal will not be finally decided until 2026, but federal judges do not normally mess around or tolerate defense lawyer shenanigans, though again I'm not sure what you mean.

My prediction is that the trial will begin, due to security concerns, the fact that Trump has not been detained, and recognition of the need for a peaceful election, in January, 2025, by which time Trump will have lost the general election.

 

'Spin' simply refers to dragging the case out for as long as is practical and if Trump is convicted before the election date initiating a lengthy appeals process immediately. Even Federal cases can be slowed down by deep pockets. For the rest?

I make no prediction about the outcome of the election. MAGA voters are stuck like limpets to Trump's candidacy but other conservative voters and those who are 'undecided' might well be dissuaded from voting for Trump should the trial commence soon enough that most of the evidence gathered by prosecutors ends up out in public domain. By rights of course he should lose in 2024 what with all the current criminal cases he's potentially faces. But then by 'rights' he should probably have lost last time to given his history and character. (And if he'd been facing off against anyone but Hillary he probably would have.)

 

There are, I think, two defensible policy reasons for voting for Trump, unless someone with better character comes along, with some charisma, and who supports the same policies. As an aside, I don't think Christie or De Santis have "it," and Mike Pompeo probably does not, though I'd happily vote for him.

1) Trump is serious about controlling the border. "We want immigrants, but they have to come legally," he said. It's an utterly reasonable and defensible policy, but Democrats, engaging in genetic fallacy, mock it because ... Trump said it! No Democrat to my knowledge is serious about border control, other than maybe Joe Manchin and a few Texan democrats with border constituents, because border control is supposedly cruel and racist. It's suicidal not to take it seriously, and Biden does not.

2) the other policy also has been made to sound xenophobic, but it isn't: America First.

Do any of us believe that the Chinese, Russians, or French are not largely patriotic and nationalistic themselves? Or that most Americans are not? Or that Trump has a secret plan to annex Mexico and Canada in Hitlerian fashion?

America First is actually better for the rest of the world too, because it translates, at least in Trump's vision, into isolationism. The opposite is internationalism. The rest of the world largely resents and hates America, so there's little in internationalism for us.

As for them, the Europeans and I think many south Americans are long past being sick of our swagger and big stick, our pollution of their cultures with our jeans, fast food, bad music, and violent movies.

This controversial anti-Trump French author said it very well, though the article is behind a paywall:


https://harpers.org/archive/2019/01/donald-trump-is-a-good-president/

 

No that she was never convicted. Unlike Diaper Donnie

Trump Org. fined $1.6 million after conviction for 17 felonies, including tax fraud


The Trump Organization was fined $1.6 million – the maximum possible penalty – by a New York judge Friday for running a decade-long tax fraud scheme

THAT'S A FELONY CONVICTION

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/13/poli...on was fined,to former President Donald Trump.

A New York jury found former President Trump liable for sexually abusing columnist E. Jean Carroll in the mid-90s and later defaming her. The nine jurors deliberated for a few hours before delivering their verdict and awarding Carroll $5 million.

KINDA LIKE THESE THINGS?

 

Fraud settlement.

Trump agrees to pay $25 million to settle Trump University ...

Reuters
https://www.reuters.com › article › trump-agrees-to-pa...

Nov 18, 2016 — Donald Trump agreed on Friday to pay $25 million to settle fraud lawsuits over his Trump University real estate seminars, in what New York's ...

 

Just the bestest president ever.
A man of golden character, eh? lol

President Trump Ordered To Pay $2 Million For Misusing ...
NPR
https://www.npr.org › 2019/11/07 › judge-says-trump-m...

Nov 7, 2019 — The money will go to a group of charities. The New York judge said money raised at a 2016 veterans fundraiser "was used for Mr. Trump's ...

 

Trump's enabling lapdog Billy Boy chimes in.
Still trying to reinvent his sordid legacy.

'Bill Barr condemns alleged Trump conduct, but says "I don't like the idea of a former president serving time'

Source: CBS News

'Bill Barr condemns alleged Trump conduct, but says "I don't like the idea of a former president serving time":

Former Attorney General Bill Barr has been highly critical of former President Trump's conduct in the classified documents case, but doesn't believe Trump should go to prison for the alleged crimes.

"I don't like the idea of a former president serving time in prison," Barr told "Face the Nation" on Sunday when asked whether Trump should serve a prison sentence if he is convicted.

But Barr did not excuse the alleged crimes outlined by the Justice Department.

"This is not a circumstance where he's the victim or this is government overreach," Barr said. "He provoked this whole problem himself. Yes, he's been the victim of unfair witch hunts in the past, but that doesn't obviate the fact that he's also a fundamentally flawed person who engages in reckless conduct that leads to situations, calamitous situations, like this, which are very disruptive and hurt any political cause he's associated with."

Read more: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bill-b...ents-january-6-fulton-county-face-the-nation/

 

Me either, I like my Presidents to NOT be indicted

 

This is a presumption on your part, which is not necessarily true. It well may turn out to be true, but it needn't proceed in the way you describe. Ultimately, it will come down to the judge. If she wished to get this trial done in the most timely way, even with all the motions, and all the allowances which will need be made for the classified documents involved, she certainly could expedite it in a way, so that it would be concluded before November 2024.

That said, I grant that there is a basis to suspect that judge Cannon may rule more along the preferences of the Trump legal team, which will no doubt wish to delay as much as possible. Nevertheless, we cannot yet consider this to be a certainty. Further, the more outrageous, judge Cannon's rulings, the greater the likelihood that prosecutor Jack Smith will be able to get her replaced; so if she is going to play favorites, judge Cannon will have to better balance her preferential treatment, than she had in her earlier, baseless ruling, regarding the Special Master, and preventing the government from having access to these sensitive national security documents.

If the case has not been heard before the election, and in the unlikely event that Trump were to win it, I will agree that it is unthinkable that the trial would not be put off, until after his term (presuming Trump would ever be forced to give up the Presidency). The one caveat, however, is that even if Trump won, he would not immediately become President, so there would still be a window of a couple of months, before he would be first even officially declared the winner, and a couple of weeks more, before he would be sworn in, and assume the Presidency. Nevertheless, even if conviction occurred during that interregnum, we could count on a forthcoming self-pardon.

Appropriately enough, in consideration of another Trump-Biden showdown, the other program, best known from creator by Susan Harris (other than Benson), was The Golden Girls.

 

I did expressly use the word 'chance' in my post indicating that the probability of a trial being finished prior to the election was extremely low, non-zero certainly but still not something I'd ever be willing to put money on. That opinion BTW being based on prior experience with the conduct of complex criminal prosecutions i.e they almost always take a long time to complete. Especially when the defendant has money to throw at a large legal team. So I don't think presumption is the right word to use.

Cannon may well lean towards favoring Trump however there are limits and in fairness if it was a Democrat appointee assigned to the case he or she would almost certainly end up doing the same thing just to defuse any allegations of bias. Which Trump's team would almost certainly start flinging around from day one in that situation. The judge would want not only to be fair but to be clearly seen to be fair so as to limit the grounds for appeal in the event Trump was convicted.

Not certain on this but constitutionally I believe there's actually nothing preventing Trump from being convicted and sentenced prior to the election then continuing with his run for the Presidency from his jail cell! If he then won in that rather bizarre scenario presumably his first 'act' as President would be to try and pardon himself. And again (and still happy to be proven wrong BTW) its still legally uncertain whether or not he would have the legal authority to pardon himslef (not that this would stop him of course). Still the Presidential right to Pardon is restricted Federal Criminal Cases which definable means the document case falls within his remit. Now if he were to be convicted over the Georgia electoral interference case on the other hand, even while in office then he would be up **** creek without a presidential pardon paddle! And apparently the governor of Georgia does not have the legal authority to issue pardons.

I see Trump playing Blanche's role. Biden would be the Mum.

 

Trump is not his whole corporation. What did he personally do that resulted in those convictions?

Nor do civil suits result in "convictions."

 

Isn't he Trump Corp and EVERYONE works for him?

Sure the civil suit found him liable of sexual assault AND slander

 

It's a closely held small business. He calls the shots; it's not IBM or something.

 

I know that. I am trying to explain that corporations are separate legal entities from the owners, and that "conviction" is a criminal law term. The defamation case against Trump was not a criminal case.

If ExxonMobil is held liable for an oil spill, it doesn't mean that the Board, the officers or the stockholders personally caused the spill. They might not even have known it was happening.

 

Trump's popularity has soared since his criminal indictment. By far, he continues to be the leading Republican candidate for the Presidency, and the leader of the Republican Party.

His trial on the felony charges may or may not take place before the 2024 Presidential election.

How low can Republicans go?

They are willing to accept a convicted felon as President of the United States!

Democrats are hoping that Trump is the Republican candidate. If he is, there is not a chance he will be elected. His popularity with Trump Republicans means nothing in a general election. In the last election, which he lost by seven million votes, Trump could not even win Georgia. He has lost every election he has been in.

But his fans adore him. Go figure.

 

Exxon is a poor comparison. Trump Org is a closely held business, and there's not necessarily individual liability but it's much more likely in a family closely held business.

 

Trump would never dress like that, of course. He and Putin have reinvented the tinpot dictator uniform to be much more subdued and civilian. Helps put potential opposition off the scent until it's too late.

 

We have corrupt Democrats literally trying to arrest the political opposition because they fear losing power yet these overly emotional and hyperbolic partisans keep claiming the other side is some how a dictatorship?

It is a world turned upside down.

 

Actually, we have patriotic Democrats trying to put the Orange Stain in jail because it's the right thing to do, knowing full well that ANYBODY but that sub-human sludge stands a better chance in the General election. Go figure.