the End of Capitalism in America

I thought you knew. apparently I was wrong. anyone can go read wikipedia.

 

who cares if profits in a competetive market trend toward zero? I though libs hated profits.


also, you cite the labor theory of value, which is a bogus concept.


so you're saying obama is just a fascist? that's soooooo much better.

 

Nothing wrong with capitalism if done right. You put on minimum controls to keep them honest and allow them to work.

We are in the trouble we're in now because government interfered where they shouldn't. They allowed business to do just what they did. Most of it would never have happened if government had stayed the hell out of it.

 

if by minimum controls you mean the protection of private property then absolutely.

 

Started in the 70's, and has all but been eliminated in this country, about 8 years ago.

 

More than private property. That isn't what brought this economy down. It was allowing companies to move to these third world countries without requiring these countries to have a minimum wage, or environmental laws. That opened the flood gate for thousands of companies to leave.

Pushing banks to make loans to people who couldn't afford them also hurt us badly.

Taking off laws that prevented banks from getting into high risk investments that were in place since the Great Depression killed us too.

Allowing Japan to close their markets to our products, while we allowed them full access to ours, killed our television and flat screen industries.

You can look back at all the things that happen to hurt our economy and lay much of the blame on actions, or inactions of our own government. Business just took advantage of what our government gave to them.

 

Capitalism was designed from the start to be a parasite using western democracies as a host. It has been extremely successful at this as we can see from the hollow shell we call democracy today.

Applying it globally on top of corruption and chaos had to blow up. Which it just did...

 

Capitalism has raised the living standards of most everyone who lived under it. It works well with minimum regulations and monitoring. When things have gone wrong, it's mostly brought on by the actions, or inactions of government as I pointed out. The proof is there if you only want to look at it.

 

Keynsians dont advocate cutting taxes.

 

Allow? One doesnt need permission. Sounds like you want government to require it.

 

protectionism is erroneous. read this http://mises.org/rothbard/protectionism.pdf

right, but if all the goverment does is protect private property it will not be forcing banks to make bad loans.

which laws are you talking about? if a bank wants to make risky investments why shouldn't they be able to? it's another thing when they make risky investments with money the federal reserve prints for them and then gets bailed out by the tax payer. but there is nothing wrong with risky investments, just don't come whining to the government when you lose your money.

again, protectionism is erroneous. there is no way that closing the japanese market to our tvs could kill our tv industry. there is still the rest of the world to sell to.

you can lay all the blame at the ations of government. if only government had not acted we would be far better off.

that is true. so if our government only protected private property, then we wouldn't have to worry about this.

 

It works. I already said that. Its even supprisingly succsessful. But its not a good medicine for the future in its current form. It has been driven forth by greed, selfishness and no regulation what so ever.
Instead of bashing each other in the head over it, we need to improve it. In its current form it provides only for the few, and it doesn't take into account the importance of decentralization.

 

You have no clue have you? Obama is centre or slightly to the right. Fascism is extreme far right. Fascism is what you had in Nazi Germany. They banned trade unions, stopped the socialists from campaigning in the elections, rounded them up and put them in concentration camps. Then they started a world war and gassed the Jews. It's a bit different to and elected middle of the road pro-capitalist people hoped might reform things a bit.

 

All of that stuff violates property rights.

 

what violates property rights? trade unions? socialists? Jews?

What are you saying? The Nazis were right?

 

I'm saying that doing what the Nazis did to them violated their property rights.

 

Sure...if you all promise to go away too. I'd happily sacrifice myself under those terms.

 

Capitalism is like the beard. It fluctuates in size and texture, but it is always relevant in any era. Communism is like the mullet. It's popular now, but it's a passing trend. We will all be laughing at it again in 10 years and making fun of people who still believe in it.

 

Whatever. American companies increased their investment in Nazi Germany by 50% during the 1930s. The Nazis were very friendly to capitalism and vice versa. Hitler was a big fan of Henry Ford. The Nazis were privatising when other countries were nationalising. Hitler was helped into power by big business, and when he got there, he helped them.

The Nazis job was to save capitalism and destroy socialism.

 

If you're going to ignore what I say, why are you even on a debate forum?

Yep, the repealed all taxes, removed subsidies, and cut the government's budget 90%.

Just because an entity is not explicitly part of the government doesn't mean it is private.

Big Business has nothing to do with Capitalism.

Then all they won was a very Pyrrhic victory.

 

see statements like this kill any debate dead because you are not on the same planet, not of this physical world, but of your own fantasy land.

 

"Nazi", National Socialist. The National Socialist German Workers' Party. It was intended as a National alternative to communism. They were just as anti-big business, anti-bourgeois, anti-capitalist as the Communist.

 

Funny though, the capitalists in America, Britain etc sent 200,000 troops to Russia to try to bring down the Bolsheviks.

In Nazi Germany from 1933-40 approx, though, American big business increased it's investment by 50%.

Oh, I just said that. Can you not read? You think sending money is a way to destroy the Nazis or something?

How do you explain Henry Ford getting the Third Reich's highest award for a foreigner?





wiki

"In July 1938, prior to the outbreak of war, the German consul at Cleveland gave Ford, on his 75th birthday, the award of the Grand Cross of the German Eagle, the highest medal Nazi Germany could bestow on a foreigner.[60] James D. Mooney, vice-president of overseas operations for General Motors, received a similar medal, the Merit Cross of the German Eagle, First Class.[60] [70]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Ford

 

"Emil Kirdorf, a very wealthy industrialist met Hitler in 1927. Although Kirdorf agreed with most of Hitler's views he was concerned about some of the policies of the Nazi Party. He was particularly worried about the opinions of some people in the party such as Gregor Strasser who talked about the need to redistribute wealth in Germany.

Hitler tried to reassure Kirdorf that these policies were just an attempt to gain the support of the working-class in Germany and would not be implemented once he gained power. Kirdorf suggested that Hitler should write a pamphlet for private distribution amongst Germany's leading industrialists that clearly expressed his views on economic policy.

Hitler agreed and The Road to Resurgence was published in the summer of 1927. In the pamphlet distributed by Kirdorf to Germany's leading industrialists, Hitler tried to reassure his readers that he was a supporter of private enterprise and was opposed to any real transformation of Germany's economic and social structure.

Emil Kirdorf and his wealthy right-wing friends were particularly attracted to Hitler's idea of winning the working class away from left-wing political groups such as the Social Democratic Party and the Communist Party. Kirdorf and other business leaders were also impressed with the news that Hitler planned to suppress the trade union movement once he gained power. Kirdorf joined the Nazi Party and immediately began to try and persuade other leading industrialists to supply Hitler with the necessary funds to win control of the Reichstag. "

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERhitler.htm