11-year-old, upset at having to clean room, shoots grandmother before killing self/MOD WARNING

Are there any credible sources on the part of yourself to demonstrate any proposal put forth by yourself would work?

Again, more baseless speculation with nothing to present as evidence of concept.

Those that would be affected would continue to defy the law even if the penalty for the first offense was the death sentence.

 

When I was sorting the parts for the C-130 shipment to France, I asked the guy, "why are we sending parts to Iran?," and he said, "because the other guy is worse." In the Cold War Jimmy Cotter Pin did more for the spread of communism than the Soviet Union.
You going to call us "insurgents" if we use our gun rights to be free from your "democratic socialist political party," or will you call us "fascist contras" and follow us around gas stations, burger king, and restrooms yelling at our pee pee?

 

Sadly it is not an opinion. Having guns in the home significantly raises suicides rates and spousal homicices. And yes it's true that for every intruder shot two people were shot by their own guns by intruders.
Who said anything about holding gun owners to a higher standard? I want them held to the same standards. If you want a car most states require liability insurance. When you have a swimming pool most communities require liability insurance. If you have cars stolen your premiums will soar especially if the cars are stolen by joyriders because you left the keys in the ignition. If you don't child proof your pool you won't be able to even get insurance. If you are an irresponsible car, pool or gun owner you should pay.

 

You know, there have always been quite a large group of gun owners who cannot handle a firearm effectively. With little, or even sometimes no time put into learning the gun, and learning how to shoot accurately and effectively.

My brother, years ago, came to visit my mom, from Hampton Va, and he traveled with a handgun, just for security's sake. He never was into guns as myself and our younger brother, and never even hunted with us, growing up. So he pulls out this nice colt pythos, 357 mag, for me and my younger brother to admire and envy. Of course the first question we asked was how does it shoot? His answer had us rolling on the floor with breathless laughter! It seems he had never fired this fine handgun even once! Had no clue how it shot, and how to adjust for this powerful caliber, especially when compared with the 38 caliber that also could be chambered and fired in this Python.


Both me and my younger brother would have spend hours and several boxes of ammo, firing this weapon. My brother is the type of gun owner who would have shot himself with his own gun if ever confronted by a criminal bent on doing him harm..

But not all gun owners are Barney Fife characters who end up in stats without detail and context.

 

See, I don't think that all of us are that willing to die for our guns. That may be baseless speculation from the standpoint of scientific research but it's based on what I know of normal human beings, most of whom have never seemed likely to me to risk a nearly life long prison sentence to go plinking targets or hunting, and this includes the criminals, who are all not criminals until they're caught and thus every bit as likely as you or I to be deterred from having a gun by a long and certain prison stay if they were caught.

Also, why are guns the only thing where you ask for rock-solid scientifically based and completely unassailable evidence before you do something? I have little doubt that the safety of lawn darts has never been investigated with anything really approaching scientific rigor beyond the first time one brained a toddler, but they're still not carried in Wal Mart anymore, though the guns are still there.

 

Don Knotts actually lifted weights and could handle himself in most altercations. Woody Allen was once going to do a charity match fight with him but was rapidly dissuaded of the idea.

 

Time for some facts. Over 90% of all gun crimes are committed by people who are banned from owning or possessing a firearm. If caught with a firearm these people face felony charges and jail time. It is obvious that criminals do not care about laws or consequences. It is well known that the only people who obey laws are the law abiding.

This is America, you can not punish people for other people's crimes. Just as you can not take away cars from law abiding people because others drink and drive, you can not punish all gun owners because less than 1% of them misuse them.

Last fact, bans don't work.

 

What knowledge pertaining to human beings is possessed on the part of yourself, that leads to the belief that they will actually comply with various firearm-related restrictions, when there are so many documented incidents of widespread noncompliance?

For the simple fact that firearms and their ownership are a constitutionally recognized and protected right. The united state supreme court itself has stated that the burden of proof regarding them has to be much higher than it is with anything else that is not a constitutional right.

 

I don't believe your documents. I don't trust your sources, as you don't trust mine.

I don't agree with the Court on several things, as is my right as a citizen.

 

Whether or not the Heller ruling is actually agreed with on the part of yourself, it does not change the nature of what is reality, and will likely remain reality for the foreseeable future.

 

I know very little about guns? I’m a certified NRA firearms instructor...what are your credentials? This kid shot his grandparent in a house, exactly how far away do you think he was? The majority of shootings happen within 5 ft.
He could have beat her to death with a coffee mug; a lunatic is a lunatic regardless of the weapon they choose.

 

Police are a deterrent force, and a response force. They might get lucky and nip the occasional crime in the bud, but for the most part they can only react after the fact. Courts have ruled again and again that the State has zero obligation to protect any one citizen; and if the state is not responsible then who is? The citizen themselves.

This argument gets recycled by gun banners all the time, and it is NONSENSE. Law - good, enforceable law - is at its most effective when it targets actual misdeeds. A law states what is acceptable and what is not acceptable, and in a free society that means that if a person commits a crime then society has the tools to punish them for that crime, and hopefully deter others from wanting to commit a similar crime. A law that imposes penalties on those who have never committed any crime, and restricts the rights of those who have done no wrong, is a totalitarian and wrong-headed law... not to mention a law doomed to failure.

 

I already agreed that one is certainly more likely to experience a gun death in the home in which guns are present than homes where guns are not present just as someone who doesn't drive is unlikely to cause a vehicle accident.

It appears that you are unaware of the millions of times that firearms are used to prevent crimes & protect the innocent. Regrettably, very few of those incidents are reported. For example, I have been forced to deploy my firearm 3 times in civilian life and would not be typing this today if I had not had quick access to a similar pistol as the one I was issued & trained to use in the military. None of those incidents were reported

The right to own a firearm is protected by our Constitution while pool and auto ownership are not. I am unaware of any state that holds auto owners responsible for the criminal acts of car thieves and attempting to compare guns to swimming pools is a false comparison.

Your opinion that innocent gun, car or pool owners should be held responsible for the criminal acts of other individuals is disturbing fortunately shared by very few people.

Do you feel that gas station owners should be held responsible for the criminal misuse of the gasoline they sell (i.e Molotov cocktails)?
If not, please explain why.

Thanks

 

Ha ha. I loved the character played by Knotts. Such a natural comedian and funny guy. And of course, I was talking about the character that Knotts played and perhaps even created, not the actor. ha ha

 

Cars and swimming pools are very good analogies because like guns they are items when used responsibly are useful and for the most part safe. But cars are only safe when the users have been trained to make their use safe and pools are safe only when .measures are taken to prevent unauthorized use. They both come with a requirement of insurance in case of accidents even those not the owner's direct involvement. Guns should not be any different, you can have them but get training first and carry liability insurance.
People like you are not the problem, it'd be a non issue of everyone took time to train and adhered to their training. The constitution is not made up of absolutes, common sense is rife throughout. You can't yell fire in a crowded theater for example.
Finally, someone making Molotov cocktails is not a good analogy because that is not the normal use for gas any more than fertilizer and diesel for bombs and airplanes flown into the world trade center. Guns if used as designed are meant to cause bodily harm and death and should be treated as such.

 

Not a good analogy. Cars are constructive things used for transportation. Pools are constructive things used for swimming. Guns are destructive things used to put holes in other things ...... to destroy them.

 

I don't know, cars are used in hundreds of times more crimes than guns. Using your logic, eliminate cars and all those crimes go away.

 

More than one-third of the shootings—34 percent—involved a shooter who was prohibited from possessing firearms.

https://everytownresearch.org/reports/mass-shootings-analysis/

 

90% of all violent crimes in the U.S. do not involve firearms of any type.
http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control-myths/crime-and-guns/

More fun facts:

• 71% of gunshot victims had previous arrest records.
• 64% had been convicted of a crime.
• Victims had an average of 11 prior arrests. 1, 2
• 63% of victims had criminal histories and 73% of that group knew their assailant (twice as often as victims without criminal histories). 3
• 74% of homicides during the commission of a felony involve guns. 4

Most gun violence is between criminals.

Fact: Guns prevent an estimated 2.5 million crimes a year or 6,849 every day. 8 Most often, the gun is never fired and no blood (including the criminal’s) is shed.

Fact: Property crime rates are dropping (especially burglaries). The chart shows the legal handgun supply in America (mainly in civilian hands) relative to the property crime rate. 9

Fact: Every year 400,000 life-threatening violent crimes are prevented using firearms.

Fact: 60% of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they knew the victim was armed. 40% of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they thought the victim might be armed. 10

Fact: Felons report that they avoid entering houses where people are at home because they fear being shot. 11

Fact: 59% of the burglaries in Britain, which has tough gun control laws, are “hot burglaries” 12 which are burglaries committed while the home is occupied by the owner/renter. By contrast, the U.S., with more lenient gun control laws, has a “hot burglary” rate of only 13%. 13

Fact: Washington DC has essentially banned gun ownership since 1976 14 and has a murder rate of 56.9 per 100,000. Across the river in Arlington, Virginia, gun ownership is less restricted. There, the murder rate is just 1.6 per 100,000, less than three percent of the Washington, DC rate. 15

 

Now for the real facts

Only ten percent of incidents took place in “gun-free zones”, or areas where civilians are prohibited from carrying firearms and there is not a regular armed law enforcement presence (armed security guards, for example). The vast majority of incidents—63 percent—took place entirely in private homes.

• From 2009-2016 in the U.S., there have been 156 mass shootings—incidents in which four or more people were shot and killed, not including the shooter. These incidents resulted in 1,187 victims shot: 848 people were shot and killed, and 339 people were shot and injured. In addition, 66 perpetrators killed themselves after a mass shooting, and another 17 perpetrators were shot and killed by responding law enforcement.
• The majority of mass shootings—54 percent of cases—were related to domestic or family violence.
• Mass shootings significantly impacted children: 25 percent of mass shooting fatalities (211) were children. This is primarily driven by mass shootings related to domestic or family violence, in which over 40 percent of fatalities were children.

 

Several times that many were killed due to texting while driving. Just proves guns are safer than smart phones.

 

A third of americans own guns. Every teenager and above has a cell phone. Do the math

 

There are nearly twice as many guns as smartphones in the US. Do the math.

 

There are many many many more people that own smart phones than guns. Some people go thru their whole lives in this country and never touch a gun

 

All the more reason to regulate them.