A Question for the Theists who Believe in Evolution

The Longest Time Span Of A Near Death Experience (NDE):

Reverend George Rodonaia was hit by a car in 1976, pronounced dead and left for three days in the morgue.

It is the most extended case of a near-death experience ever recorded. It wasn't until the autopsy began and an incision was made in his abdomen when he felt the pain and his eyes shot wide open. He was immediately rushed to ER and survived after an extensive recovery. His 'Near Death Experience' made him believe more in God and also to enjoy nature in every aspect. He has spoken in many countries in the world regarding his experience. He is not looking for the answers as to 'Near Death Experience', because he feels one will fail in it's entirety and is more interested in other people's NDE's. He realizes that we are here to enjoy our life in a modest ways and basically not to worry about 'the little things in life.'

 

Again...there does not exist any scientific proof to back this.

AboveAlpha

 

Hello everyone. This is my first post so I would like to share my 2c.

IMHO the reason why Christianity become powerful & dominant is because of Constantine ( "the great" for some) as he was the first Roman emperor to adopt Christianity. He desperately needed the troops and the financial backing of Christians at that time to beat his opposition. He was also a tolerant & skillful politician who used propaganda to achieve his goals commonly backed by his Christian inner circle.

An example is a "vision" that Constantine had, "with this sign, you will conquer" thus making his (mainly Christian) army to adopt the Christian symbols before an important battle (morale boost).

Some may argue that Christianity would have survived regardless, possibly underground but history shows that the Romans were pretty good at removing possible threats to the state regardless those being religious or ethnic.

 

Well, whether you believe in God or not, no one escapes the inevitability of death. If there's no "life" after death, one can conclude, that what we do here on Earth, while briefly alive, is of little to no consequence, meaning or purpose...for whatever legacy we may leave behind, whether it be good, bad or indifferent, will too fade into nothingness. Nihilism is the only logical path that this leads...like death, it is inescapable.

I can accept the atheist's claims that religiousity is illogical, irrational and unreasonable...however you will never hear or read an atheist admitting to the logical, rational and reasonable path that death brings...which is nothingness. Therefore in terms of the temporal constructs of life as we know it, it ultimately proves to be meaningless and purposeless. This conclusion is inescapable as death intself...

Yet you'll never hear an atheist own this, to own their philosophical outlook, own their dismissal of religion and the false belief one can escape death in an afterlife.

Nihilism is the only logical conclusion from following such a belief.

Man has no soul, man has no purpose, man exists briefly in a temporal space-time flash of existence, and man fades back into the nothingness from whence man came...in terms of consciousness.

No other conclusion can be drawn.
This is the failure of secular humanism, it is ultimately as futile as the very religion it deems illogical.
It too, is illogical...for why nurture life, seek and explore, in the absence of God, when oblivion awaits every living thing that has or will ever exist. The Universe itself will reach equilibrium, heat death.

 

This actually made me laugh.

How many atheists do you know? Do they live their lives as if they are meaningless or purposeless? And what makes you think that without the concept of God we could ever escape the desire to improve, progress and evolve? There are countless things that give life meaning and purpose the main one being the continuation of life itself. As a parent I know I will live on in some way through my kids and those whose lives I've affected and it makes a great deal of difference to me how I live my life based on my need to improve the lives of my children, friends, family and yes even complete strangers. I have never needed a belief in an afterlife to consider life’s meaning. Regardless of why we are alive we are and it means a great deal to me. In fact I find the idea that we should need to know why we exist in order for existence to be an amazing and wonderful thing a foolish one because how great could existence be if one spends all their time wondering why they do?

The opposite of your position can also be claimed. If there is an afterlife what is the point of this one? If it comes down to either behaving or misbehaving in order to receive a reward or avoid a punishment then life has a pretty cheap meaning and a ridiculous purpose.

To me thinking this life is just a stepping stone to something better cheapens this life whereas believing this is all we have creates a great desire to make it the best it can be.

 

You can see, tho, the appeal this had to the rulers, who imposed the religion on the subjects.
The church / king in collusion, and the people are told, the more hardship you endure
(while we rob you) the more you will have riches in heaven, a few short years away.

The victims bought into it, and now its so internalized that the kings are long gone, and they STILL believe the lie.

 

In fact they cannot see things any other way. It's ridiculous.

 

You are as in denial as the religious.

You will die one day, you do understand this to be fact?
a simple affirmative will suffice.

Your legacy, whatever that may be..the memories of you in your loved ones minds..they too will
die, you do understand this to be fact?
a simple affirmative will suffice

Our conscious lives are temporal, and finite. Eventually the Universe itself will reach maximum entropy and experience heat death...it too is finite.

Given a timeframe of eternal proportions, meaning, never ending...our existence is a brief spark on an endless ocean of nothingness...it's meaningless when held against the eternality of unconciousness..

You do understand this to be fact?
a simple affirmative will suffice...

It's ok though, to be in denial. The average person walking around today is also in complete denial with their eventual death and has yet to come to terms with how meaningless and purposeless it ultimately is...in the absence of God.

You're not alone in your denial...entire industries are built upon the elements of distracting us from this inevitability...for in the absence of God. Life becomes merely a distraction, a hedonistic search for the next pleasure until we succumb to eternal unconsciousness and can feel pleasure...or pain...no more.

So please laugh at my conclusion...laugh all you want...your time is finite and oblivion will have the last laugh.

Atheism leads to Nihilsm.

An inevitability.

 

i first realized that when I heard a lady say, "I dont think anyone is really an atheist."
I'd always seen it the other way around.

If "god' is the central "reality' of one's life, seeing things in other terms would be like expecting a goldfish to think int terms of life without water. I guess.

The only place 'god' is a concept i look at, is when i come here exploring the cultural anthropology of the "natives".

 

So which form does in "inevitably" lead to? One, or all?

Nihilism (/ˈnaɪ.ɨlɪzəm/ or /ˈniː.ɨlɪzəm/; from the Latin nihil, nothing) is the philosophical doctrine suggesting the negation of one or more putatively meaningful aspects of life. Most commonly, nihilism is presented in the form of existential nihilism, which argues that life is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value.[1] Moral nihilists assert that morality does not inherently exist, and that any established moral values are abstractly contrived. Nihilism can also take epistemological or ontological/metaphysical forms, meaning respectively that, in some aspect, knowledge is not possible, or that reality does not actually exist.

One more thing; When is this inevitably going to happen? We've never met anyone who is a nihilist.

 

Do you assume I think I'll live forever if not your question is absurd. The point you fail to miss is that death for me is the one thing I don't have to worry about because it is the only certain thing in this world. I'd rather focus on life which is far more difficult and interesting.

But events and experiences echo throughout existence, it's kind of how we came to be if you hadn't noticed. Of course if and when it all ends we won't be here to notice which means that once again all that matters is life.

See above.

You just spoke of meaninglessness and nothingness as facts. Do you know what a fact is? For the rest see above.

Clearly you have no problem with it at all.

There is no such thing as death if there is a God and yet believers get just as worked up over it as anyone else. Also if you pay any attention you would know God has been the leading cause of death since time began. It's funny but who/what is God? All religious people do is create a meaning for themselves through their desire to avoid death and give their lives purpose. The rest of us find meaning without God and your inability to understand how has nothing to do with its validity.

Your view of existence is kind of pathetic and morose. Your narrow vision of what you don’t understand is duly noted.

And will I be alive or dead when oblivion gets the last laugh? Are you even reading what you’re typing?

Cool, can you give me a time table as to when that’s going to happen? I’d like to mark it on my calendar.

 

I believe in God, our sole purpose in life is to honor God...not to squeee as much "joy" out of it as possible...get as many notches on the bed post, or sow the seeds of one's offspring....in the hopes your DNA will spring eternal.

We are here, for a singular purpose to honor God, for God is the source of absolutism, the Alpha and the Omega.

Human beings, by their nature, cannot grasp the concept of eternal...
whether you cherish your children as your legacy or not....their fate is already sealed...as it is for every living thing that has, is, or will ever exist. death....

Yes it's morose, but it's the harsh reality...and the only escape from this eternal fate is either

A. deny it's going to happen, because it's already happening...99% of all species that have ever existed are now extinct, homo sapiens will be no different

B. accept God as the only eternal hope you have

Now if you deny God, well, you're really back to square one...eternal nothingness awaits both you, me your children, their children...eventually the legacy will end...not may end....

Will end.

it is a fact...

It will end.

What have you lost therefore in accepting God, in not living for yourself, or your legacy but living to honor God, for in that you can indeed live eternally...but outside of that...well...prepare for an eternal existence of non-existence...for the Universe as we know it, the closed system that it is , will too eventually reach equilibrium and eternal stillness.

 

cant answer questions so change the subject and make assertions

 

O.K.

So God created us just to have somebody honor Him? I like to plant vegetables and flowers, but I don't count on them honoring me, although they may have a trace of appreciation.

Revelations says you are wrong. It says all will be saved in the end.

In the meantime, you might not get a free pass any sooner than the rest of the sinners unless you stop taking the passive way out. Enabling starts within. Learn from St. Paul.

 

First of all, this is DEMONSTRABLY false. All one needs to do is produce a single atheist that did not ever become a nihilist, to prove this false. And surely nobody is dumb enough to believe that each and every single atheist who ever lived went on to become a nihilist.

Unless of course you mean something particular by 'nihilist'. I am assuming, judging by the context, that by nihilism you mean the position that nothing has any value or meaning, but the word 'nihilism' is a tricky blighter and has many other meanings too. If you mean something else by it, please do let us know. But in the meantime I will go ahead and assume that you're just blustering.

 

We notice he didnt say which form of nihilism it would be.

And of course it is bluster aka b.. something else.

Does being a fundy inevitably lead people to make up false and ridiculous things about other people, and to say things as if they were true, when its just opinion and assertion?

I dont see the logic of it, but empirical evidence indicates it may be so. No known exceptions have been brought to light.

 

This is a pathetic understanding of atheism and what atheists are capable of believing. For one, as has been pointed out several times, there are flavors of Buddhism that are atheistic. They may hold no belief in a god or gods, and yet believe in reincarnation and the pursuit of enlightenment as purpose.

It's comical that you think atheists won't admit to the "nothingness" that follows death. The naturalistic atheists will most definitely acknowledge that death means an end to consciousness and self. However, some, like myself, will happily explain that it's enough to know that our physical forms will rejoin the Earth and rest of the universe when we die. Others make their own peace with knowing our time here is limited. My existence as a person is all the sweeter because it is finite. An eternal afterlife is what would actually make this life meaningless. What is any number when compared to infinity?

 

Well, let's see, Pascal's wager, fear mongering, and pessimistic. No wonder your religion attracts so many tortured souls. Most people out there aren't in denial about the fact that they'll die. They may not want it to happen sooner rather than later, but they aren't in denial. The question is why are you so afraid of death that you have to "escape" it by listening to what an ancient book says on how you should live your life?

 

To sum your life's philosophy...
Hippie b.s.
"my rotting corpse will nurture a blooming rose"

Go back to your bong...that sums up the epitome of a purposeless life.

Moral relativism...the philosophized notion that right and wrong are not absolute values, but are personalized..is small step away from moral nihilsm.

If someone walked into your house right now and took everything you owned, and rationalized by saying...
nobody really "owns" anything it belongs to the Universe...we all own it...are some other hippie b.s. along the lines of "going back to the Earth when I die"....

Odds are you'd be angry, you'd confront this person, what right have you to take things I bought and paid, that I went out and earned, not you...me. This is MY stuff....

I doubt you'd be so open minded, you'd assert that stealing is wrong.

So when it suits the moral relativist...oh well then moral absolutes do exist, no one should steal, particlualry from me...an absolute...yet when applied to broader religious issues...absolutes are dismissed as nothing more than words in an old book, get with the times man, religion is for dupes.

Moral nihlism asserts indeed that no morality is absolute, that they are mere constructs based on a particular culture...meaning to steal, or even to kill is not an objective wrong, morality does not exist in and of itself, it is solely in the mind of the person establishing a right or wrong...Moral relativism is a very, very small step up from that....adding credence to my original conclusion..

Atheism, by logic and reason...leads to nihilism.

Regarding Buddhism, it is not atheistic as the term is ordinarily understood. It has certainly a God, the highest reality and truth..

Then again, I've yet read anything from a true atheist that is even remotely intellectually honest...most are out and out dishonest sad sacks...sketchy folks whom should never be trusted.

thanks and have a nice day.

 

So dismissive and judgmental. What a testament you are to your faith.

 

Atheism, by logic and reason...leads to nihilism.

Accept or deny, your choice.

and do enjoy life as a big bag of manure, if you believe your sole purpose is utlimately to feed a tree

Human beings have souls, we were not created solely to be worm food. We have a conscious mind, and there is no reason to believe consciousness cannot exist independent of this temporary vessel. If you say that logic and reason deems this untrue...and indeed you hold logic and reason as truths...

Then accept the fact, that atheism leads to nihilism by the very same use of logic and reason which openly dismisses the irrational and the unreasonable.

You can't have it both ways...

Birth====Life====>Death======Maximum entropy===>Universe reaches equilibrium...life as we know cannot be sustained anywhere in the Universe===>Eternal stillness.

Logic and reason tells us that if we accept the Universe as a closed system, eventually it too will reach equiilibrium or what we regard as "death."

It could be worse of course, afterall, we're not conscious of anything...but any attempt to define a meaning or purpose to life outside of a metaphysical context that even Buddhists subscribe to...any definition would therefore be rendered moot.

Life ultimately has meant nothing...a flash of existence and an eternal stillness. By logic and reason of course.

 

So utterly typical of the fundy and its binary thinking.

We accept that by your version of logic, it does, and perhaps that explains in part why you retreat behind
an illusion of eternal life.

If atheism leads to nihilism, where are all the nihilists? hmm.. someone's logic aint working out.

everything is binary to a simple mind.

How about this: how can you think it leads to nihilism when it so plainly does not?


logic and reason which openly dismisses the irrational and the unreasonable. is the same reasoning that rescues rational people from the vice of fundamentalism and other forms of religiosity.

You should try it!

- - - Updated - - -

You are a moral relativist yourself.

 

You make so many assumptions, about me and the universe and existentialism, in that post. It's kind of crazy. I said nothing of the meaning of my or anyone else's life being equivalent to a "bag of manure." Even if we go with that ridiculous assumption regarding what I said, how is it somehow better for your life to be solely meant to boost the ego of a supreme being? That's sort of a sick thought. And as to the universe, there are plenty of scientists who believe it could be infinite, or that it at least is not a closed system. Your claim that atheism leads to nihilism, like your belief in god, is based on something you hold to be true without any evidence.

I don't need some vain boogeyman to give my life meaning. I pity those who do.

 

Actually....since I am extremely well versed in Particle Physics, Quantum Mechanics, Multiversal Theory and Celestial Mechanics I can tell you that your statement....and I quote...."Logic and reason tells us that if we accept the Universe as a closed system, eventually it too will reach equiilibrium or what we regard as "death."...end quote Herkdriver.....is a statement by you that is making an ASSUMPTION based upon FAULTY KNOWLEDGE.

First and foremost....Logic and Reason as well as Physics and Mathematics tell us that our Universe IS NOT A CLOSED SYSTEM!

It cannot be because if it was then certain things we know and have proven to exist would not exist as well....a Universe cannot have Particle/Wave Duality such as ours as well as CHOICE AND PROBABILITY....unless it was an INTERCONNECTIVE SYSTEM....or more aptly a MULTIVERSE.

Here is just a few examples that PROVE our Universe is NOT A CLOSED SYSTEM.

1. The existence of Black Holes.
2. Particle/Wave Duality.
3. Quantum Indeterminacy.
4. Photons and Electrons having the ability to have more than one function.
5. Choice.

AboveAlpha