A Time to Kill

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by bricklayer, Feb 1, 2017.

  1. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  2. Whaler17

    Whaler17 Well-Known Member

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    You should read more, you aren't representing yourself very well here. Here is the link and some direct quotes from the law:
    https://www.congress.gov/108/plaws/publ212/PLAW-108publ212.pdf

    "Ԥ 1841. Protection of unborn children
    ‘‘(a)(1) Whoever engages in conduct that violates any of the provisions of law listed in subsection (b) and thereby causes the death of, or bodily injury (as defined in section 1365) to, a child, who is in utero at the time the conduct takes place, is guilty of a separate offense under this section.
    ‘‘(2)(A) Except as otherwise provided in this paragraph, the punishment for that separate offense is the same as the punishment provided under Federal law for that conduct had that injury or death occurred to the unborn child’s mother.
    ‘‘(B) An offense under this section does not require proof that— ‘‘(i) the person engaging in the conduct had knowledge or should have had knowledge that the victim of the underlying
    offense was pregnant; or
    ‘‘(ii) the defendant intended to cause the death of, or bodily
    injury to, the unborn child.
    ‘‘(C) If the person engaging in the conduct thereby intentionally kills or attempts to kill the unborn child, that person shall instead of being punished under subparagraph (A), be punished as provided under sections 1111, 1112, and 1113 of this title for intentionally killing or attempting to kill a human being."


     
  3. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    So you have nothing to say ....OK. (shrug)
     
  4. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Can you stuff and roast an UNBORN chicken? NO and an UNBORN child is NOT a child and NOT a person.




    NOW show the part of the law that makes abortion illegal ??? :) :):roflol:
     
  5. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have lots to say to those who have their head screwed on and 'hooked up' to their brain. You are just flailing your arms and making absurd comments and convictions that have nothing to with reality. I'd rather speak with Cesar Milan's chihuahua than try to get through to your mumbo-jumbo
     
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  6. Whaler17

    Whaler17 Well-Known Member

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    That would be incorrect, quite obviously. Your alarming cooking analogy aside.
     
  7. Zeffy

    Zeffy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    4 x 5 = 20 weeks. I see math wasn't your strong suit.

    And it's 0-10% at 21 weeks.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Not in my country. And the UVVA only declares them so for the purpose of that law. Any other time, they aren't.
     
  8. Zeffy

    Zeffy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Incorrect. YOU said that Fox doesn't know what women go through in pregnancy and childbirth. The burden of proof is on YOU to prove that she doesn't.
     
  9. Zeffy

    Zeffy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Whaaaaat??
     
  10. Whaler17

    Whaler17 Well-Known Member

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    Nope! Almost yhe opposite is true. They always are considered human beings, the law just says it will not prosecute abortion homicides.
     
  11. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Are you intentionally trying to waste my time?
     
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  12. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    NOW show the part of the law that makes abortion illegal ???
     
  13. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    IF the fetus is considered a PERSON then, DUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, they wouldn't NEED the UVVA.....!!!
     
  14. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Oh? Did someone force you to post ????
     
  15. Zeffy

    Zeffy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Prove it.
     
  16. Zeffy

    Zeffy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Are you intentionally trying to waste my time?
     
  17. TRFjr

    TRFjr Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is called human rights not person rights and one of the utmost basic human rights is the right to life
    now I want to see you deny that the unborn isn't a human
     
  18. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    I have NEVER said the fetus isn't human......"misrepresentation" means you don't have much of an argument.


    Now, can you deny that if the fetus was a person, the only beings with rights, that the UVVA wouldn't be needed?
     
  19. BodiSatva

    BodiSatva Active Member

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    Uhh... what? No. We are not all born sociopaths. Learn what the term means for God's sake.

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    Sure it is a human. So what?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Prove what? They are always humans? They are. So what though? It is legal and moral to kill a fetus if the mother wants to do that.
     
  20. BodiSatva

    BodiSatva Active Member

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    Wait. Your test to determine surviving without care is to place an individual on a shelf but then limit the ones that can care for themselves by mandating that they can not leave the shelf to take care of themselves? What the hell kind of idiot test is that?
     
  21. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A Human Fetus is obviously human. A human toe nail is obviously human, a Human bowel movement is human and human blood is human. A fetus is an unborn human and the unborn are not people with rights...the Human it lives within is and does.
     
  22. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    A human fetus is always "human" but it is not A "human" in the sense it is a person.

    This can be confusing....or seems to be since some posters have claimed I said the fetus isn't human when I have never said any such thing.
     
  23. Whaler17

    Whaler17 Well-Known Member

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    WRONG!!!! The UVVA merely clarifies they are a human being (person, same thing). It specifically says children in utero at any stage of development are human beings and killing them is a homicide (no killing of a non person could be a homicide).

    So there really is no debate here, they are human beings, persons, and they are protected CLEARLY by the UVVA as human beings. Literally and clearly.


     
  24. Whaler17

    Whaler17 Well-Known Member

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    Read the law, I have posted the link multiple times. READ THE LAW!
    It literally says what I say it says. CLEARLY.

    https://www.congress.gov/108/plaws/publ212/PLAW-108publ212.pdf


    - - - Updated - - -

    It is a human being! That is clearly recognized and literally recognized in the UVVA! There is confusion here, but not on that point!!

    - - - Updated - - -

    A human fetus is a human being. That is obvious. Any attempt to claim otherwise is political nonsense.Birth does not create a human being, even abortion laws recognize that fact!
     
  25. Whaler17

    Whaler17 Well-Known Member

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    The Unborn Victims of Violence Act


    ‘‘§ 1841. Protection of unborn children
    ‘‘(a)(1) Whoever engages in conduct that violates any of the provisions of law listed in subsection (b) and thereby causes the death of, or bodily injury (as defined in section 1365) to, a child, who is in utero at the time the conduct takes place, is guilty of a separate offense under this section.
    ‘‘(2)(A) Except as otherwise provided in this paragraph, the punishment for that separate offense is the same as the punishment provided under Federal law for that conduct had that injury or death occurred to the unborn child’s mother.
    ‘‘(B) An offense under this section does not require proof that— ‘‘(i) the person engaging in the conduct had knowledge or should have had knowledge that the victim of the underlying
    offense was pregnant; or
    ‘‘(ii) the defendant intended to cause the death of, or bodily
    injury to, the unborn child.
    ‘‘(C) If the person engaging in the conduct thereby intentionally kills or attempts to kill the unborn child, that person shall instead of being punished under subparagraph (A), be punished as provided under sections 1111, 1112, and 1113 of this title for intentionally killing or attempting to kill a human being.
    ‘‘(D) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the death penalty shall not be imposed for an offense under this section. ‘‘(b) The provisions referred to in subsection (a) are the fol-
    lowing:
    ‘‘(1) Sections 36, 37, 43, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 229,
    242, 245, 247, 248, 351, 831, 844(d), (f), (h)(1), and (i), 924(j),
    Public Law 108–212 108th Congress
    An Act
    VerDate 11-MAY-2000
    19:54 Apr 07, 2004
    Jkt 029139 PO 00212 Frm 00002 Fmt 6580 Sfmt 6581 E:\PUBLAW\PUBL212.108 SUEP PsN: PUBL212
    VerDate 11-MAY-2000
    19:54 Apr 07, 2004 Jkt 029139 PO 00212 Frm 00003 Fmt 6580 Sfmt 6581 E:\PUBLAW\PUBL212.108 SUEP PsN: PUBL212
    PUBLIC LAW 108–212—APR. 1, 2004 118 STAT. 569
    930, 1111, 1112, 1113, 1114, 1116, 1118, 1119, 1120, 1121, 1153(a), 1201(a), 1203, 1365(a), 1501, 1503, 1505, 1512, 1513, 1751, 1864, 1951, 1952 (a)(1)(B), (a)(2)(B), and (a)(3)(B), 1958, 1959, 1992, 2113, 2114, 2116, 2118, 2119, 2191, 2231, 2241(a), 2245, 2261, 2261A, 2280, 2281, 2332, 2332a, 2332b, 2340A, and 2441 of this title.
    ‘‘(2) Section 408(e) of the Controlled Substances Act of 1970 (21 U.S.C. 848(e)).
    ‘‘(3) Section 202 of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 (42 U.S.C. 2283).
    ‘‘(c) Nothing in this section shall be construed to permit the prosecution—
    ‘‘(1) of any person for conduct relating to an abortion for which the consent of the pregnant woman, or a person author- ized by law to act on her behalf, has been obtained or for which such consent is implied by law;
    ‘‘(2) of any person for any medical treatment of the pregnant woman or her unborn child; or
    ‘‘(3) of any woman with respect to her unborn child.
    ‘‘(d) As used in this section, the term ‘unborn child’ means a child in utero, and the term ‘child in utero’ or ‘child, who is in utero’ means a member of the species homo sapiens, at any
    stage of development, who is carried in the womb.’’.

    (b) CLERICAL AMENDMENT.—The table of chapters for part I
    of title 18, United States Code, is amended by inserting after the item relating to chapter 90 the following new item:
    ‘‘90A. Protection of unborn children .............................................................. 1841’’. SEC. 3. MILITARY JUSTICE SYSTEM.
    (a) PROTECTION OF UNBORN CHILDREN.—Subchapter X of chapter 47 of title 10, United States Code (the Uniform Code of Military Justice), is amended by inserting after section 919 (article 119) the following new section:
    ‘‘§ 919a. Art. 119a. Death or injury of an unborn child
    ‘‘(a)(1) Any person subject to this chapter who engages in con- duct that violates any of the provisions of law listed in subsection (b) and thereby causes the death of, or bodily injury (as defined in section 1365 of title 18) to, a child, who is in utero at the time the conduct takes place, is guilty of a separate offense under this section and shall, upon conviction, be punished by such punish- ment, other than death, as a court-martial may direct, which shall be consistent with the punishments prescribed by the President for that conduct had that injury or death occurred to the unborn child’s mother.
    ‘‘(2) An offense under this section does not require proof that— ‘‘(i) the person engaging in the conduct had knowledge or should have had knowledge that the victim of the underlying
    offense was pregnant; or
    ‘‘(ii) the accused intended to cause the death of, or bodily
    injury to, the unborn child.
    ‘‘(3) If the person engaging in the conduct thereby intentionally kills or attempts to kill the unborn child, that person shall, instead of being punished under paragraph (1), be punished as provided under sections 880, 918, and 919(a) of this title (articles 80, 118, and 119(a)) for intentionally killing or attempting to kill a human being.
    118 STAT. 570 PUBLIC LAW 108–212—APR. 1, 2004
    ‘‘(4) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the death penalty shall not be imposed for an offense under this section. ‘‘(b) The provisions referred to in subsection (a) are sections 918, 919(a), 919(b)(2), 920(a), 922, 924, 926, and 928 of this title (articles 118, 119(a), 119(b)(2), 120(a), 122, 124, 126, and 128). ‘‘(c) Nothing in this section shall be construed to permit the
    prosecution—
    ‘‘(1) of any person for conduct relating to an abortion for
    which the consent of the pregnant woman, or a person author- ized by law to act on her behalf, has been obtained or for which such consent is implied by law;
    ‘‘(2) of any person for any medical treatment of the pregnant woman or her unborn child; or
    ‘‘(3) of any woman with respect to her unborn child.
    ‘‘(d) In this section, the term ‘unborn child’ means a child in utero, and the term ‘child in utero’ or ‘child, who is in utero’ means a member of the species homo sapiens, at any stage of
    development, who is carried in the womb.’’.

    (b) CLERICAL AMENDMENT.—The table of sections at the begin-
    ning of such subchapter is amended by inserting after the item relating to section 919 the following new item:
    ‘‘919a. 119a. Death or injury of an unborn child.’’. Approved April 1, 2004.
     

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