Anachronism said, To not forgive is so sad….that one would live with mean and hostile feelings…how emotionally productive is that? And that is not a bad thing is it? Saddle her? She is the one who had a huge part in creation of this unborn. She took the risk…she had the sex. She was directly involved…and played a part in how the child was conceived. She most certainly had an option…LOL The option was…making sure she did not conceive by sterilization or by some other foolproof means…..not having sex. Yes there is no middle ground no gray areas concerning this.
Five months…so then you strip the woman of her rights to her body. Why? The unborn was irrelevant for five months…when does it automatically become something at five months? What can it do then that makes such a big difference?
You know what happens when you turn the other cheek, churchmouse?..... You end up with your jaw or eye socket broken on BOTH sides of your face instead of just one. I learned that lesson at a very early age. I won't bore you with the details, but suffice it to say that I tried the "forgive and forget" thing for a long time, and it got me nowhere. Then, one day while standing there waiting for a bus at the high school someone said the wrong thing and I just snapped. Next thing I knew, HE was the one on the ground crying. I don't even actually remember throwing the punch, but for the first time I was the not the one going home in tears. That moment taught me quite a bit about life. No, however one has to realize that conesquences are really only legitimately enforcable when someone had the potential to avoid the decision(s) that lead to them. NO. In the case of rape she did not have the option of avoiding the act that lead to conception. That option was forcibly removed from her arsenal of measures to avoid pregnancy by a criminal. If you really cannot see that, then there is really no point in us continuing this conversation, is there?
Anachronism I know what happens when you extend forgiveness to someone. And whether or not you believe in Christ His principles are still a model of perfection. Forgiveness should have no limits. The parable that Jesus Peter was a perfect example of this. There was a king who had a servant who owed him money…the equivalent of ten million dollars. The servant could not pay it, and he and his family were to be sold into slavery. So he fell on his face before the king begging him for more time. The King canceled the debt and let him go. The same servant then refused to forgive a fellow servant who owed him only a few dollars. He threw him in prison. The King when he heard called the unforgiving servant wicked. He had cancelled his debt because he begged. Shouldn't he have shown mercy to his fellow servant just as the King has shown him? The moral is…and I think this is really true is that the person who does not forgive others will suffer greater consequences than the one not forgiven. We become slaves of unforgiving negative attitudes. And nothing good comes from an attitude like this…just bitterness, anger, resentment. The person who has hurt us could be somewhere having a wonderful time while we stew and boil up with resentment every time we think of them. They say the truth will set you free…and so does an forgiving heart. The more you forgive others the easier it becomes. I refuse to dwell on the wrongs…and they fade with time anyway. What if you had killed him? Did hurting someone make you feel good? Is physical violence ever good? I am not talking about defending yourself against an aggressor by protecting your life. Di you hurting him…take away the pain that he caused you? Did it really ever go away? No…I don't think so. You could have turned your entire situation around by another plan of action….extending a hand and showing mercy. But today you boast really about how you got revenge…by hurting someone else. You still have not buried that hatchet have you? I doubt you never will because of the cycle you have chosen to live by. I remember once pulling out of this parking place…and almost hitting this guys car….the blind spot preventing me from seeing that he was moving by. Anyway…this guy after I pulled up to the corner pulled next to me and yelled, screamed and used profanity against me so loud I heard it through my window that was rolled up. He was a young kid…immature and acted horribly…I didn't even come that close to hitting his car. I could hear him yelling so I rolled down the window. I looked at him…and apologized…and asked that he forgive my carelessness. I said that I felt so bad…he had a right to be mad. Well….he shut right down…his head hung, eyes drooped. It was like a balloon losing air slowly. I smiled at him…and he managed a slight smile and said…hey no problem lady and drove away. I turned that situation all around. I could have yelled and screamed back I didn't. You never know what your actions might do to someone else's life. And by doing them…you make yours even better. Rape is different but the life that comes from it is still a life. Why should the rape baby pay for something he/she had no control over? That question could be asked of any unborn getting ready to be murdered.
My maternal gradfather was a Lutheran Minister for more than 60 years. I spent more than a quarter century following the path you suggest for the most part, and then I woke up to the REALITY of the way things work, churchmouse. I wish you the best of luck with that path, but I have found another, for this and a couple other reasons. If I'd killed him, maybe it would have made a larger impact on some of his other friends than just knocking him down and bloodying his nose did. It didn't take the pain away, but it did lessen it, and it made sure that he got a chance to feel the pain too. To giv eyo ua little better idea of what we're discussing.... I have a full facial birthmark (ear to ear and from the corners of my lips over the crown of my skull) that is not capable of being hidden or removed. There is only one place I bury hatchets these days.... in targets. I give the world back exactly what it gives me and has given me for almost 40 years. I've tried your way and it doesn't work for me. Never did and probably never would have. Have you ever heard the axiom that a poisoned tree cannot bear good fruit? Yet, still, I have no problem with the mother choosing to bear the child if she wishes to. However, I will not FORCE her to bear the fruit of a poisioned tree if she does not want to.
#6 ... Anyone who doesn't believe in science shouldn't be able to vote if the vote will be cast electronically or counted electronically fair is fair
#7 ... anyone who believes in science as a belief and has denounced other people's right to vote for their irrational beliefs, has already denounced their own right to vote.
I suspect many hold the same position I do: do not care all that much! Stopping abortion simply is not going to happen. Any woman can self-abort if she is truly determined to do so.
LMAO the good ole cerebral cortex…….LMAO You deny the woman the rights to her body….am I clear?
You seek to deny the woman complete and total control of her body, at all times, after conception. Are you really going to be a hypocrite and accuse others of doing the same thing to a lesser extent than you support? You don't give a rat's ass about women's rights, stop pretending like you do. Also stop pretending like you're making some kind of game-changing observation every time your ability to only see absolutes prevents you from seeing all the space in between yes and no to the question of abortion legality.
Well, it depends. I would certainly deny the right to abortion, as would most pro-choice in this case. But termination of pregnancy without killing the baby may be still allowed. Is that a violation of bodily rights? It is not, IMHO.
This makes nothing "clearer" because A) once again it is an attempt to force others into a false world view b) far too simplistic c) no shades of grey and therefore represents a disconnect from the "real world" So, to start, let us look at number 2 - to save the woman's life (she is not a mother yet unless she has already borne a child) At what point is she allowed to say "This level of impact on my health is too much and I must have an abortion" or would THAT decision be left to others to make? Points 4 and 5 again fail to acknowledge the reality that late term abortion is more common for non-viability of the foetus and not about the woman at all - often this is a wanted pregnancy that has gone terribly wrong
This shows a persons position…nothing false about it. Abortion kills…you are either for protection for the unborn or you are not. And if there is nothing wrong with abortion…..what is your problem with identifying with one? Unless you don't want people to know your true colors…is that it? I am not talking about the laws today…and the fact that late term abortion is legal for medical reasons that deal with the life of the mother. This is easy….you pick a number. All sorts of pro-aborts did it. LOL Why are you afraid? Lets say you are able to make law…the way you see abortion should be. Tell us what should be condoned…in your own words. In your world what?
I choose number 39. 39. Abortions are horrible, and morally wrong. Unfortunately, stupid girls get pregnant when they don't want to be pregnant, and/or when they aren't ready to be mommies. And currently, abortions are legal, so my moral discomfort with the concept of legal abortions isn't a strong enough justification for the US Supreme Court to overturn Roe v. Wade. And no amount of mewling and whining is going to convince the US Supreme Court to overturn Roe v. Wade. It's that simple. Move on already.
Why rape and incest? Is that childs life worth less than one whose mother was not raped…just curious?
No, you silly, hard-headed woman. I do not support rape. In fact, I am in favor of the death penalty for rapists. I also do not support pedophilia. My own father was a sexual abuser of children, and he did his best to have his way with me and my brother and sister. He failed in those attempts. Later on, he succeeded in his endeavors to have sex with young children, with the kids that he fathered with his next wife. He went to prison. I wish he had been murdered in prison, but alas, he lived long enough to see freedom. He's dead now, and good riddance. I am in favor of the death penalty for pedophiles also, obviously. I also do not support violence against women, drunk driving, or politicians taking our money & spending it on useless programs & paybacks to their cronies, and driving this nation deeper and deeper into debt. And lastly, I do NOT support abortion. I find it a sad and horrible thing. But again, in this gray world (not your black and white world) there are some things we just have to learn to live with. The very minute you get enough credible, sane, and reasonable people together in a coalition to get Roe v. Wade overturned, give me a call. I might just find a way to help you out. Until then, your whining and belly-aching just isn't getting the job done. GET IT? You are of the minority opinion in this nation. You have the moral high ground, but not the means, numbers, money, or wherewithal to get anything changed? Live with it. Deal with it. You'll find your blood pressure wonderfully lowered whenever you find a way to do that, sister. .
Again - no shades of grey? Right/wrong clear moral dichotomy - pity that does not happen in the real world. So what about the medically necessary abortion - the one that is required to save a woman's life? Is that also morally reprehensible?? I see where my point about who gets to decide when an abortion is medically necessary has once again been ignored And again there is this attempt to deflect the discussion into late term abortion and the legality of it. Once again I will reiterate that the vast majority of late term abortions are not about the woman or her health they are about a non-viable foetus that is in actuality a "sport" of nature - some are so malformed not even appear human
Do you honestly think anyone would ever say yes to a question like that? Ofttimes though people who throw out questions like this do so not because they expect an answer confirming the premise but so they CAN get a negative and then be able to justify a statement like "Oh! Well really THOSE people (you know the "them" that is not "us" and are therefore inferior to "us") just deny the fact they are moral vacuums." It tends to tie with a black and white thinking which really belongs in the days of the early Western movies where everyone who was good wore a white hat and the bad guys wore black hats. It is interesting how this dichotomy influenced so many Americans and even today you have this "good versus evil" thinking of moral relativism in America. Other countries this is not so obvious and we are more likely to accept shades of grey
You would support rape indirectly by forcing a rape victim to bear the rapist's child and thus be forever tied to him.
Im not sure what Lord Jesus has to do with the abortion debate but if you wish to go there you should know that God commanded abortion in the OT. Jesus said .. Matt 5:17 So Jesus supports abortion too. If Jesus is your Lord then you should support abortion !
