Abortion: The Facts

You have presented no logic, science or anything resembling and argument showing that a single human cell at conception is a living human.

Do not blame your ignorance of biology on me. You saying "Wow" and going into an unsupported ad hom rant is not proof for much.

The onus of proof is on you but, just to get you started here is the commentary from Dana Krempels on the topic Dana has a Ph.D in Biology and is a professor at the University of Miami commenting on the topic. http://en.allexperts.com/q/Biology-664/Classification-Homo-Sapien-cells.htm

 

The zygote does not breathe and has no brain activity, it's not a living human being.
When you get to middle school biology you'll learn that, although I believe where you get "educated" they have cave men riding on dinosaurs....

 

Well its not dead, so it IS living.

And if its not human then what is it? A dog? A cat?

Of course its human!!

And if brain activity is what makes a person then there are no humans in the Democrat party.

 

Again you try to interchange human adjective with human noun.

Of course a zef is human, just as my heart is human (adj), my skin is human (adj) that does not make them A human (noun)

It is English 101 and something that most radical pro-lifers don't seem to comprehend.

 

By your same argument the liver of a human....is a "human being".

BTW, why do you think the Republican Party cares about stopping abortion? They've promised you they would...if you kept voting for them.....for 35+ years now.....and Roe is still the law of the land.

 

I get that. Here is what you don't get: A Human who weighs a hundred pounds or ten pounds or one pound or one ounce is till a human. And a human, be he in or out of the womb, is still a humn.

I know your skin is not A human!! Good grief. But the tiny human being in the womb IS a human.

But since you know so much, then tell me: At exactly what point is the child a human? 5 months? 6 months? You don't know. And that's the point: You DON'T know even though you act like you do.

 

You are the one acting like you know.

 

I know that a being does not magically turn from something one day into a human being the next day. Thats why I know life begins at conception and why I know abortion is murder.

 

So it was a human being the day before conception?

 

it's called a soul\spirit\life force\ect, when that enters this shell we call a body is as of yet unknown, but it's believe to be about 23 weeks

if you do not believe in a soul\spirit\life force\etc then I can understand why you would feel the way you do, as you would think all we are is flesh and bones with no soul


.

 

What you don't get is that scientifically there is no human at conception, there is no human until after differentiation, prior to that point every single one of the cells is EXACTLY the same, all 200+ of them, each has the capability of becoming a fully grown human being .. by your logic each of those 200+ cells is a human being, so you tell me which one of those cells will become the human being?

After differentiation NONE of the original cells exist, hell some of them go on to become the placenta, again by your logic the placenta is therefore a human being.

Your comments don't show that you know this. Do you even know the first thing about how human reproduction works. Upon fertilization there is a single cell, this cell splits to produce daughter cells that are CLONES of the original, there are exactly the same in every single detail, right down to the DNA. The only difference between a skin cell and one of those cells is that those cells have the 'switch' "make a human being" turned on.

Even fertilization is an arbitrary point to declare the existence of a human being, it can take anything up to 24 hours for the final combination to occur, so you tell me at what point in that 24 hours is the "child" a human being, the 1st hour, 2nd, 10th or 20th?

I have never claimed to know when a human being comes into existence, you are the one making the claim that it is at conception, the onus is on you to prove it, which BTW you cannot, as even the most experienced specialist cannot agree that, what makes you think you have the qualifications to make such a statement?

And as I have stated before it really matters not at all to me when a zef becomes a human being, it still doesn't change the legalities of abortion .. in fact the person at conception ideology strengthens the legal nature of abortion.

you have simply offered no evidence to support your opinion, all you have done is to commit the fallacy of assuming the premise.

 

considering the fact that in your OP you stated unequivocally "I don't care what a judge says or what a lawyer says:" you cannot use murder in your arguments as murder is purely a legal thing and nothing to do with science, so how do you know abortion is murder based purely on science?

 

Mary Jo Schiavo was dead, with a beating heart, breathing and her eyes following people around the room.
Well, she was living, but she wasn't a human being.

 

I see.....so should we also attempt to add protections for everything else considered Human....likely we would need to close most hospitals, or at a minimum deny many surgical interventions. It seems we men can indeed get an abortion, in fact I did so myself when my appendix burst.

Law enforcement should also be stationed in the Emergency area to intervene should someone arrive that had an accident with a table saw.

 

What do you believe the proscribed punishment for murder should be in our criminal justice system?

 

A child is a child when she is viable. A zygote is not a child. Since you believe a 1/2 ounce embryo is a child, why don't you take it and nurture it and dress it.....after all, it's a person.... Do you sit under an acorn and call it an oak tree? A ZEF is a POTENTIAL child

 

What is this soul you speak of..

 

It is a POTENTIAL human being.......the same way an acorn is a POTENTIAL tree. When most abortions are performed you are speaking of an embryo that weights about 1/10 of an ounce and can barely be seen. Your emotions are irrational.......why not,call the ZEF a toddler, you'd get more mileage

 

"""Since you believe a 1/2 ounce embryo is a child, why don't you take it and nurture it and dress it.....after all, it's a person.."""

An interesting point...I have asked Anti-Choicers that question before ....you will probably receive the usual garbled excuse.

 

From a legal perspective "murder" is the unlawful taking of the life of a person.

From an inalienable rights perspective "murder" is the violation of the Inalienable Right to Life of the person.

In both cases it relies upon the historical precedent of "personhood" that has always been established at birth.

The only real question is whether the historical precendent of personhood being established at birth is accurate or right and that is a matter of opinion.

We do, in the United States, have the means of addressing this difference of opinion under the US Constitution. We can change the historical and legal definition of "person" by Constitutional Amendment. It is the only means of changing the historical and legal precedent in the United States.

So I don't mind CC's attempts to change opinion but it is fundamentally moot unless CC addresses the fact that the historical and legal precedent can only be changed based upon a Constitutional Amendment. Without any change to the "legal" precedent the opinion really doesn't matter.

 

Actually my way of proving that CC doesnt' REALLY believe abortion is "murder" is much simpler.....I'd let him contradict himself or show himself as a monster.

Thus....the reason he refuses to discuss it. He knows I can do it.

 

That is bad science. It IS a human being, for if it is not a human being, then what is it?

 

If a human heart cell is not a human being "then what is it" ? Is this the best argument that you have ?

Aside from the abject logical fallacy... That fact that one may not know what something is, does not make it a living human. That you can not prove the moon is not made of green cheese does not mean that the moon is made of green cheese ?!

The fact of the matter is that we do know what the zygote is. The zygote is a single human cell and so is a human heart cell. Yes, the zygote contains human DNA, just like the human heart cell.

What is bad science ? If something is bad science then tell us why. Should we take you on your word, someone that has yet to figure out that lack of proof that a cow is not a chicken does not make a cow a chicken ?

Fact. The zygote is a single human cell.

Did you have some evidence or a valid argument (something other than logical fallacy) that shows "why" this single human cell should be classified as a living human ?

 

Imagine a restaurantuer who advertised "Chicken Dinner - 75 cents"....and you order one and there's a single EGG on your plate. And you say "Hey, where's my chicken?" and the restaurant owner says "Right there....that's a chicken!"

 

Let us not forget that CC has already stated "I don't care what a judge says or what a lawyer says:"