America Shouldn't Conduct Bombing Missions For Israel!

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by JimfromPennsylvania, Dec 15, 2023.

  1. JimfromPennsylvania

    JimfromPennsylvania Active Member Past Donor

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    It was reported in the media that the Prime Minister of Israel, Bibi Netanyahu, recently told President Joe Biden if you don't bomb Yemen over the drones they have been launching toward Israel, Israel will bomb Yemen over the matter. President Biden should not be persuaded by this ultimatum or any other appeal from an Israeli government leader for America to bomb Yemen over their attacks toward Israel. The American people should not be fools here what the Israeli government is talking about is getting America involved in the Israeli government's war against the Palestinian people. To the vast majority of people throughout the world the government of Israeli is illegally occupying the West Bank they consider this land the sovereign territory of the Palestinian people and attacks by Palestinians against Israeli defense forces are just attacks in a just war! To many people throughout the world Hamas is an army of the Palestinian people and their fighting of the IDF is legitimate combat in a just war; the fact that most of the leaders and rank and file members of Hamas are war criminals, barbarians and don't have the character of soldiers does not change this status like the fact that many of the leaders and rank and file members of the Russian Army are war criminals and don't have the character of soldiers does not change the fact they are the army of the Russian people! Similarly, in Lebanon America should not bomb the Hezbollah launch sites the issue is relevant because as the Israeli government continues on its policy of teaching the Palestinian people in Gaza a lesson by depriving them of needed food, water, medicine and health care services and the world sees more Gaza Palestinians die and go through extreme suffering the Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah will likely change his course from holding back the use of Hezbollah weapons against Israel to unleashing them and Hezbollah has a significant missile arsenal! Using American naval ships to shoot down drones and missiles fired at Israel is not America entering into this Israeli war against the Palestinians and its allies it is America protecting Israeli civilians but using American planes to bomb the launch sites in these foreign countries is crossing a critical line, bombing of a country is an act of war against that country this is a long standing international standard!

    One compelling reason why America should not enter this Israeli war on the side of Israel is that Israel is the bad guys in this war, Israel is on the unjust side in this war, this war is over Palestinian land commonly called the West Bank which the Israeli government is occupying in violation of international law; America should not back the bad or unjust side in a major war that betrays American values! If President Biden cannot refrain from being manipulated to enter into this Israeli war on Israel's side based on principle he should refrain based on practical considerations. Such being if Biden enters this war for the entire balance of Biden's term in office his administration will be plagued with Palestinian allies attacks on American government facilities and personnel and terrorist attacks on Americans the character of these Palestinian's allies clearly indicates this would be coming. Moreover, if Biden enters American into this Israeli war he will caused Russia to win the war against Ukraine; this is so because wisdom indicates that Ukraine's hope in winning this war rest on three major things Russia unable to expend the massive amounts of firepower and the massive number of soldiers it heretofore has been in this Ukrainian war and the Ukraine government replacing its Commander-in-Chief from the bureaucrat General Valery "I need weapons equivalent to the invention of gunpowder to win" Zaluzhny to an inspiring, creative and smart top General. Today, contrary to media hype honestly the Russian government's ability to throw weapons and soldiers into this Ukrainian fight at the levels heretofore seen indefinitely is really in question; however, if Biden enters the Israeli war on the side of Israel, the Palestinian's Arab and other allies are going to see it that oil and natural gas money pours into the Russian treasury from the sale of these Russian fossil fuels and Russian President Putin with such monies can buy the weapons and fighters he needs to sustain this Ukraine War and thus forcing Ukraine to make a peace deal along the current front lines . Critics might say Ukraine cannot win this war anyway it is going to have to sue for peace meaning Putin gets to permanently hold onto the provinces of Luhansk, Donetsk and Crimea all which Russia has already annexed, these critics are idiots Ukraine can never agree to such terms unless forced to with no choice for the length of border that would result is too long it would be indefensible against a superpower leader like Putin and the way he fights he just brings overwhelming firepower and manpower on his enemy Putin would just rebuild his Army and overwhelm the Ukrainian lines at multiple points and capture the entirety of Ukraine. A signature accomplishment of the Biden's administration is their saving Ukraine from being conquered by Russia it would be very foolish for them to throw this away by entering into the Israeli war and thereby triggering an event which causes the Ukrainian war to be lost!

    It is so sad the misinformation and bad information about the Israeli/Hamas and Palestinian conflict that is being bombarded on the American public through the media. Yes, the Hamas October 7th attack that killed over 1300 Israeli's was a world shattering event in its barbarism, immorality and inhumanity and it gave Israel every right to go to war against Hamas to get justice and stop like attacks in the future. However, Israel did not have to go to war against Hamas to stop future October 7th attacks the Israeli Defense Forces readily has the ability to stop such a future attack the border the IDF forces has to protect is only approximately 32 miles long Gaza is 25 X 7 they only need to build five moderately sized bases evenly spaced along that border about five miles from the border that have artillery/howitzer units within each base as well as having two infantry units on emergency standby if Hamas were to breach the border the standby units would confront them on foot with the artillery units and Israel air power covering them and since Israel has air superiority throughout Israel and Israel is such a small country the IDF could use helicopters to quickly fly in infantry support units, the bases would have to be concrete walled and hold troops and artillery units in concrete buildings within the bases so the bases could not be quickly overran by Hamas. What is widespread accepted and considered a good analysis is that the Israel government and the IDF woefully failed to do their job that is why the October 7th attack was able to occur!

    When October 7th occurred and the Israeli government announced it was going to war with Hamas with the object to wipe them out in Gaza many smart people publicly said that the Israeli government should scale back their goal because the harm that would befall the Palestinian civilian population in Gaza ancillary to such a campaign would be a severe humanitarian catastrophe of epic proportion these commentators counseled the Israel government should restrict their campaign to just destroying the Hamas tunnel system in Gaza a doable and very valuable accomplishment for the Israel government plus a campaign that would likely hold Palestinian civilian casualty rates to an acceptable level. These prophetic voices turned out to actually correct the death, casualty rate and suffering on the Palestinian civilian population in Gaza from this Israeli campaign is sickening, it is morally indefensible. And on the military front this wholesale destruction of large parts of Gaza has created a million hiding places for Hamas fighters and made those hiding places incredibly tough for IDF forces to identify and clear out without increased risk to the IDF. If the Israeli government had just stuck to a mission of destroying the tunnel system that would have been extremely valuable to the security of Israel for the tunnel system is where Hamas builds missiles it fires on Israels and stores those missiles and other weapons it uses to attack Israel and where it plans and has its command and control and safe havens for Hamas fighters; also, destroying the tunnel system would have weakened Hamas in internal fights amongst the Palestinians and would have helped bring about a Palestinian power structure in Gaza that is not militant. Because what October 7th showed every prudent Palestinian, Palestinian friend and fair person throughout the world that Hamas leaders are stupid, stupid beyond description they took an historic opportunity for the Palestinians to show the world they are victims of extreme injustice at the hands of the Israeli government in the Israelis occupying the West Bank the Palestinians' sovereign land and all the deprivations that ensue and that they deserve help; Hamas leaders took the narrative from the Palestinian people hold the same moral ground as the Ukranian people their land is being occupied and stolen by a foreign government in Ukraine's case Russia and we see how the international community is rallying around the Ukrainian people the world has not seen such international supportive action in fifty plus years the Palestinian people deserve such support and could have gotten meaningful nonmilitary action like groups of countries imposing sanctions against Israel. But what Hamas leaders have done with their October 7th brutality they turned the victimizer into the victim now public attention is all focused on how the Israeli government has the right to wage war against Hamas and see no repeats of October 7th, the harm Hamas caused on the Palestinian is epic, history will record it as an historic squander of a real opportunity to improve the Palestinian people's fortunes. After October 7th if the Israeli government did not subject the Palestinian people in Gaza to unconscionable hardship Israel would have had a Gaza civilian population that would have been zealots against Hamas and the other terrorist groups in Gaza they would have been thinking you guys aren't Palestinian soldiers you are barbarians, criminals and animals you have shamed us to the world you have no value for the Palestinian people, many Gazans would have been looking to help the Palestinian authority throw Hamas and the other terrorist groups out of Gaza with the Israeli governments extreme viciousness toward the Palestinian population in Gaza now what the world is left with is a Gaza civilian population that is gripped with a just hatred of Israeli Jews because of what their government did to them, Hamas now has widespread support amongst the Gaza population.

    See Part Two
     
  2. JimfromPennsylvania

    JimfromPennsylvania Active Member Past Donor

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    Part Two

    Finally, Israeli leaders and their allies have repeatedly said in the media that over the decades we have offered the Palestinian people their own country in the West Bank and the Palestinian people have rejected it. This writer is over sixty years old and he has been alive during all these negotiations and what is being proffered here is half truths. What Israeli leaders only offered the Palestinian people in these negotiations is what can succinctly be described as a Swiss cheese shape piece of land where the Palestinian country would have these significant size sections within their borders of being Israeli territory in other words it was an unjust deal offered to the Palestinians. Never in any of these negotiations was a fair deal offered to the Palestinian leaders a fair deal is what the international community has been calling for the last fifty plus years a Palestinian country with the borders that existed between the Israeli and Palestinian peoples in 1967 before the war that year with mutually agreed to fair trade offs. Both peoples have legitimate claim to the land of Palestine this 1967 border gives the Palestinian people twenty-two or low thirties percent of the land (this writer is no surveyor different reporting sources have given this range) which is a reasonable division seeing that when the British divided the land Palestinian leaders would not accept an Israeli country and the Palestinians then lost the resulting war. Noteworthy, fourteen days after the October 7th attack Egypt held an international Peace Summit where several of the participants called for this two state solution based on the 1967 border. Related to this in the media Israeli sided commentators regularly say things like how can the Israelis make peace with the Palestinians when they don't recognize the right of the country of Israel to exist; this is a half truth over the course of the multiple negotiations through the years the Palestinian authority either did or was poised to make such recognition as a part of a two state solution deal. Yes, Hamas has as its founding principle the destruction of the state of Israel but people need to focus on the truth Hamas only came to power after the Palestinian Authority and its first charismatic leader Yasser Arafat were unable to get the Israeli government to agree to a just peace deal embodying the two state solution, Palestinians are human it is human nature to lose patience eventually and look for other options to get a good result.

    One last point, in the media there is a lot of commentary about who should be in authority after this IDF military campaign in Gaza. I haven't heard this analysis so I offer it because it reflects the clearest view of reality. The Israeli government can stay in Gaza if it wants but doing so will be very costly in terms of Israeli soldiers lives and continuing the cycle of violence. What the Israeli government has done to the Palestinian civilian population in Gaza during the last two months, the extreme torture and callous killing they have subjected these people to likely has created thousand of suicide killers against Israeli soldiers and government officials. It would seem for the smartest thing the Israeli government could do is pivot the mission to destroying the tunnel systems in Gaza. Pumping seawater into the tunnels isn't destroying them for Hamas or another terrorist group can just pump out the water later; blow up the tunnels or pump in a slurry of crushed concrete and water or a slurry of dirt and water so in order to use the tunnels the terrorist will have to dig them out largely starting from scratch. Stop the widespread destruction and bombing of Gaza, secure and surveil for mines and IEDs a "route" from Israel to the base of each tunnel system and extend that route and base as sections of the tunnel are destroyed. Begin immediately and continue indefinitely letting in an abundance of food, water, medicine and fuel for the Palestinian civilian population in Gaza open multiple crossings directly into Israel stop the hardship on Gaza Palestinian civilians. Announce to the public the change in mission goal and announce that once the tunnel systems are destroyed and the Israeli hostages are released and negotiations with the Palestinian authority to take over authority in Gaza is complete the IDF forces will leave Gaza. Maybe if the Israeli government makes this extreme pivot it can salvage a desire amongst the Gaza Palestinians to shut down Hamas and the terrorists in Gaza for they offer no salvation for the Palestinian people and "maybe" for like seven years America with the help of two other NATO countries using their "security services" can offer to help the Palestinian authority build an anti-terrorist force that can permanently shut down Hamas and other terrorist groups in Gaza - of course Israeli security forces could not be involved they lack trust and good will, the Israeli gov't would receive periodic reports from this Nato alliance verifying they weren't building a military force in Gaza that would threaten Israel!
     
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  3. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hey JimfromPennsylvania........

    I would be honoured to have your comments and your criticisms on my attempts to get people who are interested in
    increasing Shalom in the Middle East......

    and even on my proposed campaign for the office of Mayor of Mississauga........
    to think outside of the little box that BigMedia people seem to want to shove all of us into!?


    This will give you something to begin thinking about.....

    Mr. Robert Mendelson is from Delaware.....



    In my opinion......
    Mr. Robert Mendelson could be termed "a TRUE ISLAMIC THEOLOGIAN".....
    IN MY OPINION....HE QUOTES THE KORAN FAR MORE ACCURATELY......
    THAN THE FAMOUS SUPPOSED ISLAMIC THEOLOGIANS......
    who are very likely really ACTORS PLAYING THE ROLE OF MUSLIMS......
    but a True Islamic theologian will look at these Sura's very seriously........
    and I believe will tend to realize that that there is something terribly OFF in what
    BigMedia is putting out regarding the Israeli - Palestinian Conflict!!!!
    "God's Peace Plan for the Holy Land, Hebrew and Arabic."
    God's Peace Plan
    for the Holy Land
    A Peace Plan for Israel/Palestine
    conforming to guidelines from the Bible and Qur’an
    presented by
    Robert Leon Mendelson
    Copyright December 2010.
    ......
    Preface
    “God’s Peace for the Holy Land*”? Isn’t that a presumptuous title? Please allow
    me to explain. First, since the sacred books of Judaism, Christianity and Islam
    provide the guidelines supporting this solution, and since I wasn’t the one who
    wrote them, calling them “God’s” seems fair. That’s why the words “presented by”
    ..........
    IN MY OPINION... IF PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU REALLY WANTED TO
    BEING TO BRING SHALOM TO THE ENTIRE MIDDLE EAST.......
    THEN THE NEXT TIME THAT HE VISISTS THE USA OR CANADA.... HE SHOULD CONSIDER AVOIDING SPEAKING WITH
    THE COLD BLOODED REPTILES IN THE WASHINGTON OR OTTAWA SWAMPS.... AND INSTEAD SHOULD SPEAK
    WITH A NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE AND A PROPHET WHO LIVES IN DELAWARE..........
    .... ROBERT MENDELSON WRITES AND SPEAKS LIKE SOMEBODY WHO HAS MUTIPLE DOCTORAL DEGREES....
    BUT HE AND I LOOK AT THE WORLD VERY VERY DIFFERENTLY......
    AND WHEN WE TALK ON THE PHONE WE TEND TO MAKE EACH OTHER RATHER ANGRY.......
    ....
    largely because Mr. Robert Mendelson is very far left politically and I was given my intellectual foundation by
    somebody who met with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu decades before he got into politics......
    Messianic Jewish theologian Garner Ted Armstrong........
    who got me obsessed with hidden meaning in every word in the Law and in the Prophets!!!!!
    "The Tate Plan for Shalom in the Middle East! "


    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...the-middle-east.614114/page-2#post-1074567762

    For the record....
    I personally rather like the fact that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu put the ball into the Biden team court......

    and let them know what Israel feels forced to do.....

    whether Biden and his team like it or not??????!!!!!


    Dennis Tait or Tate for Mayor of Mississauga?


    IN MY OPINION.....
    ISRAELIS ARE NOT REALLY THE BAD GUYS IN THIS WAR.....
    THEY ARE BEING SPUN AS THE BAD GUYS BY THE SAME BIG MEDIA THAT THREATENED PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN DECADES AGO........ THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE!!!!!!!!!!


    Does what happened to President Ronald Reagan explain events since 2015?




    ?
    Are the owners of BigMedia doing to President Trump what they threatened President Reagan with?

    1. No
      5 vote(s)
      62.5%
    2. *
      Yes
      3 vote(s)
      37.5%

    3. Maybe??????? That is scary though and puts a whole new spin on modern USA history!!!!
      0 vote(s)
      0.0%
    Change Your Vote


    On the other hand......

    I don't think that Biden and / or his team.......

    could behave in a COMPETENT MANNER.... or any question.... especially a question as big as INCREASING THE LEVEL OF SHALOM IN THE MIDDLE EAST!!!!!!!??????
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2023
  4. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, we should instead bomb the sh#t out of those launch sites in Yemen attacking international shipping.
     
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