why shouldn't someone with a grievance complain and whine? And why shouldn't they wish war? The Europe's Jews did exactly that. Don't see your point.
The Jews in Europe were native civilians that harmed no one before they were rounded up and murdered, so there is no base to compare Jews to Arabs and Nazis to Jews. I think its shameful for the Palestinians and for Muslims that a person cowardly calls for "war" against Israeli civilians (cause they are all guilty in a Democracy...) than whine and lie when his side loses. that's not a person that's a maggot...
There is a simple solution, annex the occupied territories, give those people living there the same rights as anyone else in Israel. But as we know that cannot happen because Israel does not believe in genuine democracy. Israel shows constantly by word and dead it wants a greater Israel, but it will not share such a country with "others". Just as the Jews of Europe did nothing to deserve their fate so the majority of Muslims and Christians did not do anything to deserve their fate at the hands of Jewish Occupiers since the creation of Zionism. Israel was born in blood until Israelis start facing up to this there will be no peace. But do not take my word for it listen to the Israeli Foreign Minister Shlomo Ben Ami https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdAeFcytcZ8
As of 1991 the Palestinians were recognized as an independent nation by Israel, a nation on the way to own an independent country, we argue about land and borders, We cannot make decisions for the Palestinians such as merge them into us, that's against the Oslo accords, but it for argument sake the Palestinian authority collapses and by some unforeseen chance the Palestinians will want to join us in one country - my guess the answer will be yes, I'm guessing that according to 1968 when the Israeli gov made all efforts to legally include the new territories to Israel and met the objection of other countries. It's not about a bloody birth - its about you will never accept us or our rights yet you demand we recognize yours, see we can agree about suffering and compensations to the innocents that got hurt but never to an enemy that seeks a crack to sneak in and destroy us, that's why some of our leaders make certain demands that force the Palestinian leaders making a decision on it right now.
You are contradicting yourself. If Israel would want a greater Israel, they it needs to annax all the West Bank, but of course as you said, this solution cant happen, and If it cant happen thus the will of Israel of a greater Israel (as you put it) is not true. So are you saying that the Arab Authonomy that exists in the West Bank today is unaccptable? First of all he says that Zionist can be Liberal man/woman, by relying on the Decleration of Independece of Israel. Secondly, he defines "Zionism" according his own point of view, when he said "according to my book" which is he "put the limits on the border of 1948. BUT of course Zionism said that a state needs to be establisht in the Land of Israel, which was perior to "the border of '48". He also says that it doesnt need to be recognized beyond it's recognized international borders, but the world already recognized it as a state that needs to be establisht in the Land of Israel [AKA the Trans-Jordan (that today we need to exclude this territory), the West Bank, Gaza and what call today Israel], which later on (until today) is protected by Article 80 of the UN Charter. The partition plan was never got it's validity because it was not agreement to accept such plan (the Jews accepted and the Arabs rejected), thus no one can rely today on what the partition plan offered. Mehdi Hasan, has it all wrong about the UN madated borders, because how Israel is today is not according to the UN mandated borders, or even how Israel looked like in 1948 was not the borders. The Borders were the Land of Israel with the West Bank and with Gaza (if we exclude Trans-Jordan). Diana Butto says that Israel was founded and is giving today prievleges to only one ethnical gorup, which is not true. In Israel you have Arab lawyers, judges, CEOs, proffesors, students, doctors etc. Now in the West Bank Israel gave, or more precisly agreed (with Arafat) that in the West Bank the Arabs will have their own Authonomy, which they now have of course. So this Authonomy is contradicting what Diana Buttu is saying. Also in Gaza, after the disangegment in 2005, there was elections there, and after the fighting of 2007, Hamas took control and he is now in control over Gaza. Everything that is been transfered to them is in the hand of Hamas to deciede what to do with it. Diana Buttu is wrong by saying that Zionism is to prefer one group from the other. Because the meaning of Zionism is a movement that support the establishment of a state for the Jews in the Land of Israel. She also said that between 1948 to 1967 there were "Palestinians" that lived under military rule, but where? after all until 1867 the West Bank was under Jordanian rule, and Gaza was under Egyptan rule. Diana Buttu also is saying that her family that is living in Jordan did allow to come back, which is because Jordan that refer to their part of the population as "not citizans", and they dont get equal civial rights, from education, housing etc. Also in Jordan there is that resolution from 1950's that specifized that Jordan would not allow the "refugees" to return to their properties in Israel until Israel will be eliminated. Mehdi Hasa also is saying that Israel didnt allow them to go back, but it really did allowing them by offering the Arabs of a return in 1949, and later by Barak. Also it says in the video that the Arab nations supported Jewish majority by expelling from their countries the Jewish population, which is very true. And yet they didnt allowed the Jews to come back. Ben Ami also saying that the settlements is a sin, which it is not accoridng to international law, that protect the sovereignty rights of the Jews over the land of Israel, and to settle there. * Hertzl never wanted an establishment of a Jewish state, but he was a support to the establishment of a state for the Jewish people.
On numerous occasions you have shown the inability to either understand English or the concepts involved, thus I do not bother to even read your contributions.
Zionists came in and stole a land, it is a simple as that. Israel is a European colony in the middle east.
That's why we can never have peace with your side. luckily we moved on with our lives while your side does the posting in such forums and demonstrate in the streets.
It is why you Israeli's live in non stop terror and have to militarize their society in order to keep on going ethnic cleansing, while being politically isolated that is shifting towards getting more economically and intellectually isolated. While I have a comfy live far from such ways.
You are not fooling me, your replies prove you are involved either by family ties, national pride or religious pride - to this feud. I prefer you do the accusations and we the defending in the diplomatic arena than the other way around.
Wait a minute. The Jews of Europe didn't harm anyone. And neither did the Palestinians either. So that's wrong. And as for cowardly ; Israeli people have no problem with harming civilians and then whine when they get bus bombs in return. You know that so is like to see where you're coming from or why we should move the goalposts. - - - Updated - - - You didn't move on at all. And they have no choice.
I understand English and the concepts well, thank you on your concern!! I guess you dont really have something that could contradict what I just wrote to you.
Oh noes. The political, partial economical/intellectual boycot is rather real. It has nothing to do with family ties. And I'm not much different than those companies. Is it? With your.. "you got family ties to the people who I ethnically cleans" reply.
Someone had to kill those Jews in 1920,1921,1929,1936, 1947 - not counting the casual rapes and murders, I fully agree the Jews didn't remain in debt to the Arabs. But that was NOT the case in Europe, the Jews were normal civilians as any "Aryan" German ever was, they were not involved in any feud. Is that why we have fights between Right and Left ? Bez'elem, Peace now, breaking silence, all those activists and pictures Israelis release, where are they from the Palestinian side ????? silenced, dead or non-existent ??? If Israel wanted to kill civilians without care there would be no Palestinians left to talk about and you know it, we kill civilians when civilians become part of the war zone and that is purely a decision of the Palestinians - Namely Hamas They can't do anything till they resolve their own internal affairs, I agree that Likud is just happy the way things are but its their ppl and their responsibility to unite and grab their own future, I mean they really do expect other ppl will unite them AND GIVE them Independence ??? who GIVES independence ????
Well you'll be the first to know if it bears fruit. so far not even my phone bill got postponed, I think you are still very far from destroying my country. What ?
You are simply a supporter of ethnic cleansing by refusing to comment that such people may not be harmed so they can go on with ethnic cleansing. I personally like to see it in an other way. But I guess the label sticks until you present your opinion that you may harm people to stop them from ethnic cleansing more and more. It is in your hands. Such a troll defense would be met with a heavy dose of laughter by the judges of international court of justice when they convict a person of ethnic violence.
What ever way you look at it, the creation of the state of Israel in 1948 involved a huge injustice to the Palestinians. If you cannot have peace you will have war, if you wish to live in a state of perpetual war then so be it. You came to the land, the Palestinians were already there, Israeli ideas of justice and compromise seam to be giving back some of what they stole. It is laughable if it wasn't so tragic.
Then you will understand why I read this, realised you cannot comprehend and read no further, "If Israel would want a greater Israel, they it needs to annax all the West Bank, but of course as you said, this solution cant happen, and If it cant happen thus the will of Israel of a greater Israel (as you put it) is not true." Do not ask me to explain I am not bothered by your lack of comprehension, it is not my problem.
It's far more likely you end up with a knife sticking in your neck, like that participant of ethnic cleansing mentioned in the original post, than it would happen to me. As for your phone... try to call with Orange in a couple of months. It's not part of you do the accusations we do the defending or something, when you go racist about my supposedly ethnic background.
No, there will be justice to both or none, injustice to the Palestinians came AFTER the injustice made on Jewish immigrants during the mandate. before the mandate Jews and Muslims lived together under the Ottomans, no reason Jews can't immigrate to Jewish settlements when the Ottomans fell, the Arabs had no special rights over the land as whole or barren land, they ONLY had rights on their own settlements. While you side refuses to recognize that - I refuse to recognize your side, endless war ? its your side choice, trust me when I say we live better than the avr. Palestinian.
Well it is according to what you wrote. You wrote: So if according to you there is a simple solution of annexing the West Bank , but such solution cant happen it means that you couldnt wrote after it that "Israel shows constantly by word and dead it wants a greater Israel", because it is in contradiction about your previous statements. Moreover, when you said "because Israel does not believe in genuine democracy" about why such solution cant happen, but it is in contradiction with reality, because Israel agreed with Arafat to establish in the West Bank an Arab Authonomy. Which means that: 1. Israel does not want the solution you stated of "greater Israel". 2. Israel gave the Arabs a territory which they could control over themselves (AKA area A, B and Gaza).
lol, I wish you a long and healthy life so you manage to catch the 100 Independence year of Israel on your 3d TV. Orange was kicked out of my country and from what I remember they paid about 50 Million Euro's to the Israeli "partner" company but only after that French slime bucket of CEO traveled here and kissed all kinds of hairy butts...yuck...., my bet he will not be re-elected again to this office.
I never said such thing, but it was YOU that assumed such thing without no evidences. The ICJ has nothing to do with social conventions. Its people who invent social conventions, not courts. Therefore, this part of your commant has nothing to do with what I wrote, nor contradicted you agreement that it is social convention (how can say that? re-read my previous commant that was directed to you).
