Animal Rights

Discussion in 'Animal Welfare' started by Savitri Devi, Sep 3, 2012.

  1. Savitri Devi

    Savitri Devi New Member

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    That wasn't a snarky remark. It was the truth.

    Debatable.
    Hedonistic/sadistic reason. Pain and suffering for personal pleasure.

    So are beans, dark leafy greens, seeds, nuts, lentils, etc. Just have them with some vitamin C and it helps absorption.

    At the risk of you claiming I am being sarcastic, I am going to create an analogy for you. You cited taste (i.e. personal pleasure) as a reason for your animal exploitation. If someone has a sexual appetite for children, is it okay to exploit them if they are treated nicely? Like animals who don't want to die, is it okay to rape them if they aren't willing?
     
  2. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    I am taking my two cows to be processed March 4th. They have had good lives and it is now time to feed the family. I will not feel the least bit guilty when I sit down to that 1 inch thick Porterhouse steak and baked potato smothered in butter...my mouth waters just thinking about it.

    The food was not transported thosands of miles by truck ...it was all raised right here at home.

    If you have a problem with it....I guess you just have a problem.
     
  3. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    A meal without flesh is like eating grass.
     
  4. Sab

    Sab Active Member

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    Stupidist comment today.
     
  5. Sab

    Sab Active Member

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    They don;t survive anyway because we kill them all as soon as they are grown.

    The Asian red fowl (the undomesticated chicken) still lives in the wild as does the wild boar.
     
  6. funinsnow

    funinsnow Banned by Member Request

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    Sab & Zeffy, I'm a vegetarian who believes in animal welfare, but I don't go to the extreme PETA does. I have no problem with hunting deer, ducks or other animals for food as long as the animal is quickly killed. We do need more humane farming such as free range chickens.

    Both Rush H. Limbaugh & Patrick J. Buchanan :flagus: say that being against animal cruelty such as dog fighting are things people can agree on. Patrick J. Buchanan has said he likes cats as pets & again, RushH. Limbaugh likes his dogs & cats. Patrick J. Buchanan & RushH. Limbaugh both believe that hunting for food is fine-that hunting must be a swift kill. Both believe that we must help people first but humane animal treatment is something people can agree on regardless of politics. It's not Democrat or Republican. 1 can be a hunter but still be against animal cruelty such as Michael Vick's dog fighting though a hunter will differ with PETA on a topic such as hunting for food.
     
  7. Gemini_Fyre

    Gemini_Fyre New Member

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    If animals were not made to be eaten, then they wouldn't be made of meat. But as it happens they are, and we do.
     
  8. Crawdadr

    Crawdadr Well-Known Member

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    As species all of those animals not only survive but their populations have increased through out history. The domesticated animals of today are not equipped to survive in the wild any longer and the ones that are would become nuisance animals that would end up being hunted and killed to cull their populations like deer here in Kansas. Either way animals will be killed so is it better to use them as a resource or to just slaughter them because they are in the way?
     
  9. Sab

    Sab Active Member

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    So lets not breed any more.
     
  10. Crawdadr

    Crawdadr Well-Known Member

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    The domesticated animals live in a symbiotic relationship with man. If we removed ourselves from their life cycles what would happen? There are consequences to every action since we are the dominate species and have the capability to use logic we have a duty to consider the impact of our actions.
     
  11. Sab

    Sab Active Member

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    The result would be that that domesticated breed would no longer be in existence save for some kept as pets.
     
  12. Crawdadr

    Crawdadr Well-Known Member

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    Is that preferable to the animals serving a purpose? I am all for treating the animals well and not abusing them. But alowing them to die out just because we no longer have a use for them does not strike me as the right way to go either. Animals are a resource, that is a fact, wether we use them, other animals use them, or an ecosystem uses them (like bees transporting polon) makes no differance. In my oppinion it is mans duty to be conservationists and to insure that all creatures are used propperly and not abused or destroyed.
     
  13. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    In 2009 the USDA made it ileagal to slaughter horses for meat. The result was a lot of horses just being let go. The animals suffered from starvation, pests and diseases.

    In 2012 they decided it was more humane to slaughter them.

    Years ago in the deep south pig prices dropped to .09 cents a pound. As a result many pigs were just let go. They are still a problem today. Wild hogs are destructive and dangerous. They cause millions in losses every year.
     
  14. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    When an animal is caged to the point it can't even turn around it is cruelty to animals.

    I raise animals for food and I strongly believe that animals should be free from hunger, thirst, starvation, pain, and be allowed to engage in natural behavior.

    It is a good thing to seperate the boar hogs from the sows however. If not the boar will pester the sows to no end.
     
  15. Sab

    Sab Active Member

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    yes it is preferable. Creatures by being domesticated have been abused. Cows whose udders are so large they constantly rupture, Sheep who cannot give Birth normally, Chirckens whose lefs buckly because of the absurdly high weight bred into them. Animals are Current;ly a resource that does not mean it is morally right to kill them purely for their taste.

    The USA has horrendous abuse of farm animals -it is not as bad as China but it is shocking all the same.
     
  16. JavisBeason

    JavisBeason New Member

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    the thought of everything crashing down due to animal extinctions is laughable to me. Animals have gone extinct for all time, and the world adapts.

    ie - there are only 3 types of elephants in the world today.... over time, there have been over 40 different kinds. yet only 3 remain.

    ZOMG, the world is ending now that the mammoth is dead!!!!!!!!


    so forgive me for not showing concern when a frog dies out from Chytrid Fungus
     
  17. Crawdadr

    Crawdadr Well-Known Member

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    Killing them because of there taste is a natural and healthy behavior. Abusing them is not and should not be ok with people. As you just agreed they are a resource so if we are not going to eat them what are we going to use them for?

    Why is it ok for every other creature in the food chain too do what is natural to them and eat their preferred food but not us? Man even with all his technology is still a part of the natural cycle of this planet and eating prey is still a necessary part of that cycle. In fact since we have killed so many of the predators in nature, if we did not kill these animals they would over populate and then die horrible deaths due to starvation or become such a nuisance that we would have to kill them to protect our other sources of food such as grains and vegetables.

    Extremists on both sides would rather screw all of us instead of learning how to live in harmony within the worlds ecosystems.
     
  18. Sab

    Sab Active Member

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    Killing is abusing. We shouldn;t 'use them' for anything
    because we have developed ethics

    Man even with all his technology is still a part of the natural cycle of this planet and eating prey is still a necessary part of that cycle.
    No it isn;t . I don't eat prey
    Or stop killing wolves and Coyotes


    Being vegetarian does not screw with the worlds ecosystems.
     
  19. Crawdadr

    Crawdadr Well-Known Member

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    1.Killing is not abuse, torturing, confining into small places, and injecting them with strange chemicals is abuse. But slaughtering animals for their meat and hides is the same as harvesting plants. Both are living entities and both are a part of the natural food chain. But I am open too hearing why killing is abuse mam (or sir) this is a discussion forum where we all can learn from one another.

    2.IHope we can we agree with this definition of Ethics? If not please provide your definition.
    ( usually used with a singular verb ) that branch of philosophy dealing with values relating to human conduct, with respect to the rightness and wrongness of certain actions and to the goodness and badness of the motives and ends of such actions.

    If we can agree on this definition how is it unethical to kill an animal?

    3. Killing wolves and Coyotes has gotten out of hand and I think we should not cull those creatures unless they are a threat to the local population. On this I hope we can agree.

    4. Unless you are growing your own vegetables without the use of modern technology and those are the only ones you eat then you are supporting agribusiness which kills animals to protect their crops, uses chemicals which harms the environment to protect those crops, uses trucks and trains to transport those crops which harms the environment, are sold in stores which use huge amounts of energy and land which harms the environment. All of these things impact the ecosystems of the areas they happen in. So even you as a vegetarian screws with the worlds ecosystem.
     
  20. JavisBeason

    JavisBeason New Member

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    culling is one of those things that is for the good of the animals as a group. If you don't cull those animals, food shortages happen for all of them and there is going to be a mass starvation. The land can only handle so many kangaroos, so many wolves before it can't support them anymore.

    So you are left with a choice, let ALL the animal starve until balance is achieved, or killl some quickly to achieve that balance.
     
  21. Crawdadr

    Crawdadr Well-Known Member

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    I agree to a point, unfortionatly we have done more then just cull those animals. Those two predators have been targeted no matter their popultaions or the effect it has had on the ecosytoms. It is one of the reasons that we have such a huge deer problem here in the midwest. No natural predators are alowed to exist beside humans. Shoot on site has been the bywords for more then a hundred years.
     
  22. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    An omnivore does best with a diverse diet of plants and animals. Yes, we can survive without eating animals, but it's much easier to eat animals along with plants. Just like I like to eat a wide variety of vegetables, I also like to eat a wide variety of animals. Get the most nutrients that way.
     
  23. Sab

    Sab Active Member

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    You can get all the nutrients you need from a vegetarian diet. You eat meat because you enjoy it.
     
  24. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Our anatomy is that of an omnivore. Our gut length per body length is in between the ranges of most herbivores and most carnivores. Yes, we were prey. Many carnivores are prey. Being prey doesn't mean we can't also be hunters. It's not mutually exclusive.
     
  25. Sab

    Sab Active Member

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    Our small intestine length is way out of Omnivourous and is right in the mean for Herbivores


    Anatomically and physiologically, people are herbivores.

    Facial Muscles
    Carnivore: Reduced to allow wide mouth gape
    Herbivore: Well-developed
    Omnivore: Reduced
    Human: Well-developed
    Jaw Type
    Carnivore: Angle not expanded
    Herbivore: Expanded angle
    Omnivore: Angle not expanded
    Human: Expanded angle
    Jaw Joint Location
    Carnivore: On same plane as molar teeth
    Herbivore: Above the plane of the molars
    Omnivore: On same plane as molar teeth
    Human: Above the plane of the molars
    Jaw Motion
    Carnivore: Shearing; minimal side-to-side motion
    Herbivore: No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back
    Omnivore: Shearing; minimal side-to-side
    Human: No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back
    Major Jaw Muscles
    Carnivore: Temporalis
    Herbivore: Masseter and pterygoids
    Omnivore: Temporalis
    Human: Masseter and pterygoids
    Mouth Opening vs. Head Size
    Carnivore: Large
    Herbivore: Small
    Omnivore: Large
    Human: Small
    Teeth (Incisors)
    Carnivore: Short and pointed
    Herbivore: Broad, flattened and spade shaped
    Omnivore: Short and pointed
    Human: Broad, flattened and spade shaped
    Teeth (Canines)
    Carnivore: Long, sharp and curved
    Herbivore: Dull and short or long (for defense), or none
    Omnivore: Long, sharp and curved
    Human: Short and blunted
    Teeth (Molars)
    Carnivore: Sharp, jagged and blade shaped
    Herbivore: Flattened with cusps vs complex surface
    Omnivore: Sharp blades and/or flattened
    Human: Flattened with nodular cusps
    Chewing
    Carnivore: None; swallows food whole
    Herbivore: Extensive chewing necessary
    Omnivore: Swallows food whole and/or simple crushing
    Human: Extensive chewing necessary
    Saliva
    Carnivore: No digestive enzymes
    Herbivore: Carbohydrate digesting enzymes
    Omnivore: No digestive enzymes
    Human: Carbohydrate digesting enzymes
    Stomach Acidity
    Carnivore: Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
    Herbivore: pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach
    Omnivore: Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
    Human: pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach
    Stomach Capacity
    Carnivore: 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
    Herbivore: Less than 30% of total volume of digestive tract
    Omnivore: 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
    Human: 21% to 27% of total volume of digestive tract
    Length of Small Intestine
    Carnivore: 3 to 6 times body length
    Herbivore: 10 to more than 12 times body length
    Omnivore: 4 to 6 times body length
    Human: 10 to 11 times body length
    Colon
    Carnivore: Simple, short and smooth
    Herbivore: Long, complex; may be sacculated
    Omnivore: Simple, short and smooth
    Human: Long, sacculated
    Liver
    Carnivore: Can detoxify vitamin A
    Herbivore: Cannot detoxify vitamin A
    Omnivore: Can detoxify vitamin A
    Human: Cannot detoxify vitamin A
    Kidneys
    Carnivore: Extremely concentrated urine
    Herbivore: Moderately concentrated urine
    Omnivore: Extremely concentrated urine
    Human: Moderately concentrated urine
    Nails
    Carnivore: Sharp claws
    Herbivore: Flattened nails or blunt hooves
    Omnivore: Sharp claws
    Human: Flattened nails
     

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