Animal Rights

Discussion in 'Animal Welfare' started by Savitri Devi, Sep 3, 2012.

  1. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    When we are all forced to be vegan I want no money to go to saving the endangered bovine.

    or chicken, or pig.
     
  2. CanadianEye

    CanadianEye Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not really. With the current water tables already in extreme crisis, if everyone had to go vegan (read as a titanic agricultural expansion) it would do more than destroy the economy (beef, poultry, pork, lamb, fish etc industries, and all the associated industries obliterated) it would be an ecological disaster like the planet has never seen. Not too mention, there would be no room to overlap all the current livestock that absorbs a good percentage of global water resources, for agricultural livestock necessity. Meaning, before vegan was imposed...all livestock would have to be killed, as the water tables disappearance would produce an even faster ecological disaster like the planet has never seen.
     
  3. Albert Di Salvo

    Albert Di Salvo New Member

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    My taste buds like the flesh of other creatures. My teeth likes to sink into such flesh, rip, grind and tear. My tongue likes to roll such flesh around the mouth. Then down the hatch. It gives my stomach a wonderful feeling. It's nature's way.
     
  4. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    It was just a joke.

    I will never be vegan...and I will keep my livestock.
     
  5. CanadianEye

    CanadianEye Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I know PC. ;-) Sorry, I was just making a roundabout point about cosequences, regarding your post that mentioned about being forced to be vegan. There was no poke in your direction.
     
  6. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    Thats cool I didn't take it that way.
     
  7. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    A post saying that animals are not self-destructive is wrong (or at least not quite accurate). When it comes to diet they are self-destructive. Just like people... they eat what they like, good for them or not. That is why feed is always premixed(or mixed at the farm) because if they were given free choice at all times they would suffer severe dietary problems.

    So...at least in diet they are self destructive...and have you ever tried to avoid hitting a small animal on the road?

    Them little tree rats beg to be hit.
     
  8. Mr. Swedish Guy

    Mr. Swedish Guy New Member

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    I didn't say that you were silly mind you, I said that being a vegan for the reasons you have is silly. A slight difference there. So you're first sentence right back at ya. And I was referring to the saying "treating something like cattle" i.e treating it badly. And I was suggesting that meat grown in a scientific lab.. no, can't really explain it actually. But you know, they are growing meat tissue and livers to help people who've lost theirs. Same technology could be just to make meat, you only need some DNA if if remember correctly. But in the mean time I think we can use animals for meat, but I do want to give them good living conditions while they are alive. Isn't that a rather sensible position?

    No not really, no animals, except us of course, can even think in such terms. They care about much more trivial things like getting food an mating, not the potential destruction of the earth.

    And I stand by my statement that I find your attempts to justify veganism to be ridiculous. You don't have to deny that humans eat meat in order to justify your position, or pretend that it would be healthier, that we only do it because of culture and tradition, that it is causing us to be more violent. Those are ungrounded opinions.
     
  9. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    Everyone that raises livestock knows that animals that are treated better taste better. A stressed animal releases stress hormones that "taint" the meat. And anyone that raises cattle for milk knows that good milk comes from "contented" cows.

    The only problem is that large producers of meat products do not care. Dairymen do care and usuall take very good care of their girls..
     
  10. Daggdag

    Daggdag Well-Known Member

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    Omnivore means survived on BOTH meat and vegetation, not either.

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/omnivorous
     
  11. JavisBeason

    JavisBeason New Member

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    no souls = no rights as far as I'm concerned. I plan to eat a dog when I'm in Asia because I can. May end up HATING it.... but it's on my bucket list
     
  12. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    Great Britain and Australia (and i think the EU) have five laws regarding animals and I agree with them all.

    The two i can recall right off the top of my head are....Freedom from hunger and thirst....and freedom to engage in natural behavior.
     
  13. Pgraphicx

    Pgraphicx New Member

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    Our dog is our best friend. I wish I could be the person my dog thinks I am. People who abuse animals are like a rabid snake and desposed of. Thsee is no excuse someone who abused animals. Lets throw in people too. I especially dislike child molesters.
     
  14. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

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    Animals are conscience, so they have souls just like us.
     
  15. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

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    I am actually interested in this, I can't seem to find it. It would be interesting to see how the EU compares to the US.
     
  16. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    I stumbled on it when I sent my wife to the library to get a book on pigs. My wife came home with one book that was published in Great Britain.

    I have also seen it on some farming sites from Australia. I like to get info from everywhere.

    Wikipedia has them listed under animal welfare...just google.

    1. Freedom from fear and distress.
    2. Freedom from hunger and thirst.
    3. Freedom from discomfort.
    4. Freedom from pain, injury, and disease.
    5. Freedom to engage in natural behavior.

    The book I read also says that the castration of pigs will soon be illegal in the EU....if not already...don't recall the date.
     
  17. Crawdadr

    Crawdadr Well-Known Member

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    Lets say we all do become vegan what do we do with all of the demesticated animals? Cows, chickens, and pigs as they are now will not survive without man. Once we do not need those animals they will be killed off to make room for either crops or natural predaters will destroy them.
     
  18. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

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    Hmmmmm... I didn't find it on Wikipedia. LOL Anyways, thank you kind sir.
     
  19. Savitri Devi

    Savitri Devi New Member

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    Okay, this is absolutely absurd. About 1/3 of the Earth's arable land is being harvested and tilled. 70-90% of this land goes to feeding livestock! If we stopped eating meat, we could renaturalize these areas to the forests they most likely were before they were clear-cut for grazing, drastically reduce water and air pollution.

    As for the economy factor, the economic system would simply change. Most likely for the better as people wouldn't have to subsidize the meat, dairy and egg industries and instead could subsidize organic fruits and vegetables.
     
  20. Savitri Devi

    Savitri Devi New Member

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    Nobody is arguing that an animal looks for the most readily available energy source that its physiology can handle.

    That being said, a lot of the studies about animal obesity and gluttony tend to come from a laboratory (not in natural settings). So whether it's a matter of can or will is up for debate still.

    This being said, animal foods are NOT the easiest form of energy for humans. It requires vastly more resources. More time, gas, fertilizers, feed, etc. If we converted this into producing fruits and vegetables, it would require vastly less. I mean simple energy pyramid economics dictate that only 10% of the energy goes up a trophic level. Meaning we feed 9X the plant matter to animals we could eat and feed to ourselves!
     
  21. Savitri Devi

    Savitri Devi New Member

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    Animals have an amazing capacity for remembering their natural ways. This being said, the domesticated animals we have today are not the ones that lived in nature. Even if they did go extict it would be like phasing out a breed of dog; a human creation.
     
  22. Savitri Devi

    Savitri Devi New Member

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    A slave treated well works better too. Does that make it more justified. Furthermore, I have heard of cases in Asia where they literally beat animals to death because the hormones they produce as a result of the beating 'supposedly' make the meat taste better.

    And for everyone to have the 'choice' to eat meat requires large scale production. Making factory farms inevitable.

    Also, I don't know how you define "care", but best case scenario for a dairy cow, is being perpetually artificially impregnanted (painful at the very least), milked until you no longer can and then slaughtered, and having your children ripped away from you and sold for veal if they are male.
     
  23. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I question the word "vastly". The majority of the plant matter currently fed to farmed animals we couldn't or wouldn't eat ourselves. If we were to replace all meat products with non-meat alternatives with the quality, variety and dietary needs we would require or demand, I'm not convinced the overall "cost" of production would be significantly different.

    There is also a vast difference between a vegetarian system, where many animals would be kept for non-meat products or a vegan one, where the variety and dietary questions become more difficult.
     
  24. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    To raise vegetables you have to till, plant, fertilize and harvest. With a cow you have to fence. With a cow you get 1200 pounds of beef per acre (if it is good pasture) and you get cattle growing on land you would have to irrigate to get veggies( but it takes more acerage per cow).

    So...having done both...you get a better return with cattle than vegetables...and cattle don't spoil on the way to market.

    And with pigs...they get the vegetables and food stuff that people will not buy. And chickens eat the rest...and produce extra eggs to put wieght on pigs.
     
  25. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    pregent cows look forward to milking...not milking them is painfull.
     

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