Anne Sacoolas charged over death of teenage motorcyclist Harry Dunn

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by Egoboy, Dec 21, 2019.

  1. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    SNIP
    The US citizen granted diplomatic immunity after a car crash that killed teenage motorcyclist Harry Dunn has been charged with causing death by dangerous driving.

    However, Amy Jeffress, the lawyer representing suspect Anne Sacoolas, responded by saying she “will not return voluntarily to the United Kingdom to face a potential jail sentence for what was a terrible but unintentional accident.”

    However, Ms Jeffress’s statement made clear Mrs Sacoolas does not intend to return to the UK: “This was an accident, and a criminal prosecution with a potential penalty of 14 years’ imprisonment is simply not a proportionate response.
    ENDSNIP

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/harry-du...ne-sacoolas-charges-over-death-105350317.html

    I think this is proper and expected. Obviously, it was an accident... Nobody is claiming this woman was AIMING at the kid.

    Nonetheless, I think she should return to the UK to face charges. "Not a proportionate response"?? That's bullshit....She killed a human being... This is manslaughter, or whatever the British equivalent is. Not predicting what a sentence should be here, but even her lawyer is essentially conceding she did it.

    Diplomatic Immunity should only go so far, IMHO.. One line in the OP says she's the "42-year-old wife of a US technical intelligence officer". Is that even technically a diplomat?? Don't want to split that atom, but I would bet his status as a "diplomat" is debatable at best...

    What say you?
     
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  2. TheAngryLiberal

    TheAngryLiberal Banned

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    She should go back to the UK and face charges instead of running away. She's a Mother and has to understand the pain she has caused this family from the death of their son that she is responsible for. The optics of this are awful if she refuses to go over there and stand trial, so authorities need to get her Dumb Ass back on a plane and take care of this.
     
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  3. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    I fully agree, but which "authorities" are you referring to?? State Department? DOJ? White House?

    Which of anybody at any of those organizations cares about "optics" anymore??
     
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  4. TheAngryLiberal

    TheAngryLiberal Banned

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    I'm not sure what branch of the Government would deal with forcing her to go back to the UK, but the DOJ would probably the one I think would be involved. This Woman has absolutely no intregrity by trying to run away from Justice, she killed a young man and doesn't want to have any Culpability for it, makes me sick. Had someone from the UK came over here to the US and ran over and killed her children, she'd be on the WARPATH for Justice if they took off back to the United Kingdom to avoid any type of responsibility. There's nothing special about her, she just think she's above the law of common decency, because she's married to a Diplomat.
     
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  5. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I will be surprised if this administration acts, hopefully they do the right thing and force her to stand trial for her crimes.
    UK has no statute of limitations on murder thankfully so the next administration could still act if it isn’t handled now.

    The State Department has said, “We express our deepest sympathies and offer condolences to the Dunn family for their loss. We will continue to look for options for moving forward. We are disappointed by today's announcement and fear that it will not bring a resolution closer," a State Department spokesperson said Friday.”

    Doesn’t look like they will be cooperating
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2019
  6. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Agree.

    It may have been an "accident" but fleeing was NO accident....she is a scuz bag...
     
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  7. Andrew Jackson

    Andrew Jackson Well-Known Member

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    So, basically, if she never returns to the UK she will have gotten away with murder?

    I would recommend (If she wants to keep walking the streets freely) that she doesn't return to the UK.
     
  8. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Charging somebody for the death is a helluva lot closer to "bringing a resolution closer" than hiding her away forever...

    Such crap from our government these days... It's like they have 10 year olds coming up with their logic.
     
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  9. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well, let's call it manslaughter or unintentional death... murder is pretty loaded....
     
  10. Andrew Jackson

    Andrew Jackson Well-Known Member

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    Yeah.

    I hear you and point taken.

    I am fine calling it "manslaughter" or even "negligent homicide".

    In any event, I still stand by my recommendation that she shouldn't return to the UK (If she values her freedom)
     
  11. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

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    It is called 'causing death by dangerous driving' I believe.
    'Looking for options' moving forward is a strange statement. I mean how many options can there be to choose from?
    How many of those options have already been considered?
    This looks like refuge in a country who have brilliant lawyers who can make anybody believe anything, and somebody has told her 'don't worry it'll all be all right'.
    Donald Trump tried to stage manage a forgive and forget situation in the White House that was sprung on the British family by surprise, and he had already reached a verdict that it was an 'accident'.
    If it was an accident as the President says, then the lady will have nothing to fear in the UK. However there are features we are yet to discover, for example failing to stop at the scene of an accident is an offence, as is failing to give a sample to be tested (if either of those things happened).
    Now it certainly does not look like a hit and run which would bring the full force of the law down on Anne Sacoolas, but there was a hit, and a kind of run but not from the immediate scene.
    Harry Dunn had a twin brother, and a loving family who's lives have been shattered and they need to move towards some kind of resolution. Their suffering is much worse than Anne Sacoolas, and however contrite she may feel it is about time she showed it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2019
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  12. Spim

    Spim Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree with this a hundred percent but I would question whether or not something this has ever happened before with another countrys diplomat. I'd be surprised if something similar hasn't happened before
     
  13. SiNNiK

    SiNNiK Well-Known Member

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    She should go back and face the charges. If she did the crime, she has to do the time.

    Poor kid. :(
     
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  14. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Appending to this thread with recent news

    SNIP
    Interpol have issued a red notice for the wife of a US diplomat charged with killing Harry Dunn, as police told his parents she was “wanted internationally”.

    In a significant escalation of Britain’s stance on the issue, it emerged on Monday that Interpol had issued a request to police forces worldwide to locate and provisionally arrest Ms Sacoolas if she crossed their borders.
    ENDSNIP

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/interpol-issues-red-notice-us-154935294.html

    The UK is not screwing around on this one... I'm sure she wasn't going to be travelling internationally after this anyway, but this should clinch that...

    This will be an interesting case to debate when the Trump regime is over..... Does the Biden administration extradite her??
     
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  15. Yulee

    Yulee Well-Known Member

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    No they won’t. Our government is the one who wished her away so quickly.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2020
  16. 3link

    3link Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Just more narrow-minded "America first" mentality from the right. Just imagine how conservatives would be howling for justice if the roles were reversed. Especially if it was someone from one of those "dark" countries.
     
  17. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Diplomatic immunity shouldn't be a thing. But it is. When we give a diplomat immunity to our laws, its literally a liscence to kill. Same when other countries do it for ours. I don't see any reason to it beyond elites making themselves gods. But our governments agreed that she was immune from the law. I support getting rid of the practice. I don't support nitpicking over who is more legitimate to be immune from the law and who isn't.

    On the other hand, maybe if she extradited and charged, it will break down the prsctice of exchanging diplomatic immunity... that would be good.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2020
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  18. bx4

    bx4 Well-Known Member

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    I’m going out on a limb here ...

    I agree with the principle of diplomatic immunity although I’m disappointed it was given to this woman and it shouldn’t normally be used for a case like this. But it exists to protect citizens of all countries from false arrest so it has an important role in diplomacy.

    As for this situation, I’m glad the UK authorities have charged her. I hope they issue a European and even worldwide arrest warrant for her. It will mean she can’t travel outside USA for the rest of her life.
    That’s not a big deal for many people but I suspect it would change her life. Not to the point of being unbearable, but to the point of being significant.
     
  19. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The US has no extradition treaty with the UK at this time.
     
  20. mdrobster

    mdrobster Well-Known Member

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  21. mdrobster

    mdrobster Well-Known Member

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    She should face the music, as once said, and prepare herself to accept the consequences of her actions.
     
  22. bx4

    bx4 Well-Known Member

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    And if she is not prepared to do that, she will have to stay in America for the rest of her life. If she ever travels outside the country, she will have to be absolutely sure that it is only to another country that does not have an extradition treaty with the UK. Otherwise she will risk arrest and extradition.
     
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  23. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well, how does that square with my post in #14, the recent news from yesterday that she's now on an Interpol watch?

    If she's arrested by ANY country (that supports Interpol), regardless of whether there is an extradition treaty with the UK, won't she be sent to the UK?? Seems to me if you are arrested during entry you are not in a position to claim "no extradition"?

    Serious question (for anybody). I really don't know which of those takes precedence.
     
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  24. bx4

    bx4 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know the answer. I suspect that the Interpol arrest warrant would mean that she might get arrested, but if the country does not have an extradition treaty with the UK, she would be released. Could still be a hassle for her with anywhere from hours to weeks or maybe even months in prison awaiting the outcome of the hearing to see if she gets extradited.

    To me it sounds as if she is stuck in America for the rest of her life. There are worse places to be, but if her husband has a job that requires him to move around, that could affect them.
     
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  25. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    What do you think Biden will do in 2021? I have to assume her UK arrest warrant won't be outside the statute of limitations next year?

    She was only denied extradition by Pompeo...

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-51228262

    And I don't think this will set an "extraordinarily troubling precedent." either.... It's not like the UK is on a fishing expedition here.... Her guilt is essentially established...
     

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