Anne Sacoolas charged over death of teenage motorcyclist Harry Dunn

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by Egoboy, Dec 21, 2019.

  1. bx4

    bx4 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think any president will send her back. I don't know if the family has filed a wrongful death lawsuit but I would not be surprised if they do. Probably better to do it in USA where the woman (presumably) has assets and the judgment might be larger.
     
  2. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

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    A family has lost a son, and a brother his twin.
    There is no structural excuse whatsoever to shelter Sacoolas from doing the right thing and facing up to her actions.
    It is about her personal morality as much as anything, and if her lawyers, advisors, and government people pile in to obfuscate matters, shame on them.
    A young life has been lost, it is not about a single pawn taken in a game of chess, but somebody like you and me and any or our friends and family suffering without closure (if that's even possible anyway).
     
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  3. mdrobster

    mdrobster Well-Known Member

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    Well going by Trump's past foreign policy actions, I don't see any change in positions in regards to her diplomatic status.
     
  4. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

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    Do you think so?
    I would say her responsibility is essentially established, but as for 'guilt'? Well that is something to still be established under the due process of UK law.
    If any guilt is to be established I suppose that comes down to each day that passes where Anne Sacoolas is hiding from the due process.
    What is curious is if she thinks that if she hides away long enough it will all be forgotten and go away. It won't.
     
  5. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well, maybe guilt is the wrong word... let's go with culpability...

    She was driving the vehicle that struck the young man... the rest will need to be determined in a court, someday...
     
  6. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Knowing Trump, he will give her an award of some sort.
     
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  7. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    The Rush Limbaugh Medal...
     
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  8. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  9. mdrobster

    mdrobster Well-Known Member

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    From the article....

    US cases where the treaty has been applied[edit]
    From January 2004 to the end of December 2011, seven known US citizens were extradited from the US to the UK.[19] No US citizen was extradited for an alleged crime while the person was based in the US.[14] The US embassy in London reports that, as of April 2013, 38 individuals have been extradited from the US to the UK.


    Anywho, there is an extradition treaty.
     
  10. MissingMayor

    MissingMayor Well-Known Member

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    I don't think Biden would return her, at least not early in his Presidency. Too much of a political calculation involved unfortunately.
     
  11. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    I think her lawyer's statement is specious, what lawyer does not say that on domestic cases. That is not the issue. The only issue is diplomatic immunity. Were she a British citizen she would be facing charges there. Had this happened here in the State's she would be facing charges. Rightfully so in both cases. It's the diplomatic immunity that is the burr under the saddle. There IS a purpose for diplomatic immunities so that foreign dignitaries can't be FRIVORUSLY charged for some political reason or even to get information out of them. We don't want an Iran arresting our diplomats and using them as pawns. And yes that includes family members. But should it be afforded HERE in this case where she admits she was driving that car at she struck and kill someone. And the justice she should face is the justice of that country doesn't matter if her attorney thinks that law is too harsh, it is up to the judicial system in that country to decided.

    But can the United States set a precedent which could have further consequences for diplomats serving in foreign countries? I wish she would voluntarily go back and face the consequences. She has certainly not helped her case to do so with some of her statements. How do we balance that?
     
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  12. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You forgot this part.........

     
  13. mdrobster

    mdrobster Well-Known Member

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    Again, there is an extradition treaty, and it has taken place.
     
  14. HockeyDad

    HockeyDad Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are kidding right? Do you know how many Americans have been victimized (rape/manslaughter) by Saudi nationals (and then US officials damn near abetted their flight from America)? Since 1988, there have been at least 20 cases. I am sure this A-Ok with you because the offenders were from one of those "dark" countries. Where are the howls for justice that you predicted? More importantly why don't you give a damn about Americans victimized by Saudis with impunity?

    https://www.propublica.org/article/...o-flee-while-u-s-officials-look-the-other-way

    This is a story of ELITES first not America first. It happens all the time. A billionaire got away with having a pedophile island for more than decade b
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2020
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  15. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

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    It is inappropriate to spin this out into something about other countries or legalistics or whatever.
    This is about a family in pain seeking closure.
    Ann Sacoolas is not doing the right thing on an intimate and personal level. She has hurt and continues to hurt a family in pain.
     
  16. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    I think we've found rare agreement here....

    I'm not against most diplomatic immunity, but it shouldn't be absolute (to use another term in the news)...

    I honestly don't think allowing the UK request for extradition in this unique case would create some sort of Open Season on Diplomats...

    I also question her Diplomatic status to begin with... Her husband barely meets that bar, from what I've read.
     
  17. BaghdadBob

    BaghdadBob Well-Known Member

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    I just read this page ...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Harry_Dunn

    ... and have to wonder why accidents have to become some form of criminal negligence. It's apparent from the Wiki page that the family are looking for a pound of flesh. In my eyes that lowers them to the same level as Sacoolas. This belongs in a civil court. The facts can be fleshed out there, and adjudicated with monetary damages as a prison sentence serves no purpose in this case. Sometimes an accident is just an accident.
     
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  18. leaulauzon

    leaulauzon Active Member

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    Because she was driving on the wrong side of the road which is AGAINST THE LAW...

    Let me guess, if someone ran a red light and killed on of your loved ones, you would think it’s just an accident?

    It’s not just an accident if the person did something against the law. It’s criminal negligence as it obviously should be.
     
  19. glloydd95

    glloydd95 Well-Known Member

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    If the situation were reversed and a brit with DI got into an accident resulting in the death of an American child on American soil, the DOJ would not be demanding extradition. Yes, the parents would be seeking charges and some form of restitution and they would be equally as frustrated. This has nothing to do with the "right wing"...lol

    If crazy Joe were President (never gonna happen) the result would be exactly the same.

    I agree with whoever said diplomatic immunity shouldn't be a thing...but it is.
     
  20. BaghdadBob

    BaghdadBob Well-Known Member

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    Then give her a citation for a moving violation.

    I'd know it wasn't because I probably pushed them in front of the car.

    A criminal negligence charge should incorporate another aspect of the accused's behavior such as were they driving under the influence, or were they playing with their phone, etc. A brain fart should not be criminalized.
     
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  21. glloydd95

    glloydd95 Well-Known Member

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    If that were my child, I would be using the civil courts in the U.S. seeking a public apology as part of a sizable financial package. It won't bring the child back but nothing will. They have another son they can use the money to put through school.
     
  22. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Why does Anne enjoy diplomatic immunity? She's a dependent wife, not a diplomat herself?? I couldn't find any justification for her having claimed immunity. If her husband is a diplomat, his immunity shouldn't be attributed to her.
     
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  23. glloydd95

    glloydd95 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it should. The entire purpose of diplomatic immunity is to shield diplomats AND their families from "legal" political coercion and manipulation. If diplomats' immediate family members were not covered, the diplomats themselves would be vulnerable through them.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2020
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  24. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    LOL... So, read what you wrote. To "shield diplomats from illegal political coercion. You mean like running over a young man and killing them, and being charged? That surely isn't what diplomatic immunity is for, is it?
     
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  25. glloydd95

    glloydd95 Well-Known Member

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    What if she didn't really do it? What if she was set up in order to put her husband in a compromised position and he has knowledge of classified information?

    Countries give each other's diplomatic workers and immediate family members immunity to most legal charges to prevent this kind of espionage.

    I am not saying this case is that but it could be. Yes...guilty people go free.
     

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