Are forced taxes theft.

you're becoming hysterical.

 

As I wrote previously, you're committing the fallacy of a false dichotomy by assuming that things the government provides via taxation will never be provided unless the government exists to take my money.

You think we can't have streets, sidewalks, stop lights, fire deptartments, etc. etc. etc. if we didn't have government?

Make your case! Prove that without the government we would be trying to commute to work using goat trails.

 

That’s a myth that has been thoroughly indoctrinated into the gullible masses. I showed very clearly a system where taxation can be 100% voluntary. But like everything government touches it can be very easily corrupted. The voluntary system I proposed will only work if the tax rate is within reason and the same for every non-essential product and service. Once the rate becomes excessive and/or the definition of non-essential becomes severely limited that system will fail. The odds are government will do what it can to make it fail so it can go back to the standard feudal system.

Every government throughout history tends to tyranny given time. It’s easy because they have their cognitive dissonant minions helping them every step of the way.

 

They won't be. That is why the gov't provides them. We were there once upon a time.
No need to go back to the 1800s.
Rural America likes electricity. Likes paved roads. Likes bridges over rivers and creeks. As well as the rest of America.

 

ho-hum

 

Finally something we can agree on. We were not given a choice. Americans had to choose between a war criminal and racketeer and a wannabe war criminal and racketeer. Just another typical rigged election orchestrated by the puppet masters. And thanks to SCOTUS funded by the corporatocracy.

 

Why would you think I want all the amenities you offer?
No one else does.

You want all these amenities, you just want other people to pay for them for you.

 

There you go with that force we were talking about.
Mafia man.
How about I don't move.
You move. We're staying, you are tiny minority. We don't owe you ****.

And that is the problem you've got.
Individually you can bully us. But when you start running people out their homes, you will unite us and we will kill you all.
That's how taxation works.
You make yourself the enemy of the people. You ride them too hard and it stops being worth their time to accept your theft as the cost of doing business.
They will kill you. Murder you like dogs in the street.
These people hate you with a passion. You have been making their lives harder for them for your own selfish gain.

Not that you will see it that way, in your own mind, you will be telling yourself that you are doing them all a favour. And believing it too.
Cognitive disconnect.

 

Then we don't need to be forced into paying for them do we?

Does government provide electricity in the US? In the UK it does not.
Both our countries have examples of private bridges.

So basically you have identified roads so far as a government service both you and I want to pay for.
But you think I want everything else. Police, fire services for example.
And they are some fairly reasonable sounding services many people might want, but it isn't going to stop there.
You are going to throw in schools next, then hospitals and courts, and child councilors and standards inspectors and law makers and law enforcers and tax collectors and international trade negotiators and soldier and airmen and navies and port authorities and air traffic controllers and dog handlers and park wardens and traffic wardens. And environmental researchers. and charities. And welfare inspectors. Ambassador, embassies, spies, etc. ****ing spacemen. I kid you not.
And every time you can imagine something else you'd like, you are going to add it to my ever growing bill.

And what started with just "some roads to work" turned into a ****ing enormous great scam accounting for half of all the money in the country.
You will steal half of everything anyone ever earns "for some roads".

How stupid you must think we are.

 

First of all I never called you a liar, I told you whom ever taught you that lied to you....Next we find out your a teacher/sensai...You gotta be living in California, or Australia.

I dunno..when you Owe an entity money do they stop collecting just cause you tell them to stop?

What would be the purpose? What in your opinion are taxes used for? Such a system would cost more to collect then the one we have now...If anything getting rid of the simple W4 form would increase the tax liability dramatically for everything else..you would put company's out of business over night.

 

About as dumb as claiming voluntary debt..Or is it?

 

That's what we have in the USA...You sign a w4 form, you sign a property agreement, and you pay a merchant extra voluntarily.

 

I taught myself.
School of life.


I don't owe any entity any money. I don't do debt.
If you attempt to collect from me and I say stop. You would be very wise indeed to stop.

You just deciding that I owe you money, isn't going to get you very far.

I live in Cambridge England.
Teachers here are two a penny. Sensei's not so much.
Sensei accords me a very high social status in Japan. I am very proud of it..

 

If you have a tax liability..You did something to owe it..so it can now be classified as debt.
Edit: at least in the USA..dunno about England...You guys are have the dole, so you may be screwed.

 

?
Loads of people volunteer for debt.
They go and arrange mortgages for example.
Ask to borrow money from their parents.

 

I'll be the ultimate judge of if I have a tax liability, not you. I'll be the judge of if I did something to owe it too.
My judgement of course, being the most important one.

You can "classify" it as debt all you like, but if I don't agree, you won't have much luck.


Here is an example from the UK.
The government got elected on a policy of Poll Tax.

A flat tax on all voters to replace property tax on home owners.
Seems like a more fair tax to me.

Many people did not agree.
So they did not pay.
Too many people didn't pay. They could not imprison millions of us.
The tax failed. It no longer exists. No one owes it.

So governments power is not absolute.
Yes they can make things hard for you, but their control over you, has finite limits.

Just because someone says you owe them money, does not mean that you do.

 

And for those who never asked for and don't use these services, they don't have to pay taxes?

 

WTF are you talking about? It would take the form of a federal sales tax. Nearly every business charges a state sales tax now on goods and services. How would it cost more to collect than funding the behemoth IRS? How would it put companies out of business?

 

Claiming what?

 

That’s not voluntary. If you refuse to sign it you can’t work. But that’s not the only thing forced. If you don’t file you can be charged with “willfull failure to file”. If you don’t pay what they decide you owe they can freeze your bank account or seize your assets. You are forced every step of the way. Failure to do so either means unemployment, loss of assets, incarceration or any combination.

 

You wish.
Those people just get stolen from to fund other peoples ideals.

Why I don't just give up and claim benefits is quite beyond me.
Honesty is it's own reward, apparently.

 

Well @dairyair says that one needs to pay taxes because she uses the services of the government. But if that's the reason, then it would stand to reason that if someone didn't use said services then there would be no need to tax him.

I'll guess we'll have to wait and see whether or not @dairyair agrees or not.

 

No, he will cry for the poor.
We have to pay more than our share so that "the poor" can be rescued and we must not be selfish uncaring bastards.

Not that the poor see much of our taxes. All I see is damned rich government employee's living easy lives and using lots of free to them facilities the cost of providing which, keeps poor people poor.

 

Wait, what? The poor? I thought @dairyair said we had to pay taxes to pay for the roads we use.

 

Well poor people need roads too don't they?
Why do you hate the poor? You must be a fascist.
Adolph Longshot. I bet you have a little moustache.