Ashkenazi Jews from 350 people, maybe Khazars?

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by Ronstar, Jun 24, 2015.

  1. Oxymoron

    Oxymoron Well-Known Member

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    Genetic studies disprove a Khazar connection, so your psuedo theories are rubbish.
     
  2. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    the only study that they cite which claims to show a Khazar genetic connection, compares the DNA of Ashkenazi Jews to the DNA of Jews from the Caucasus region,

    such idiocy.
     
  3. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    The Khazars are one of the most mysterious populations of the Old World whose abrupt disappearance from the history pages has tantalized scientists for years. Who were these Eurasian warriors? Were they Giants, Amazons, Turks, or Mongols? Were they all Jews or just their rulers? What happened to them and where are they now? Were they enslaved by their conquerors or were they absorbed into a different population?

    To answer these questions we launched the Khazar DNA Project.

    continued

    https://khazardnaproject.wordpress.com/
     
  4. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    its absurd and idiotic to suggest that because Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews share genetic markers with Caucasus Jews, that means that Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews are descended from the Khazars!!!

    the fact is, pretty much ALL Jews, share genetic markers. Jews in France, Germany, Russia, India, Morocco, Spain, Algeria, Holland, Italy, Syria, Yemen, Pakistan, etc etc.
     
  5. Yetzerhara

    Yetzerhara Banned

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    Right.

    Here's what you won't quote from the above:

    "Because the Khazars were Jews, WE SPECULATE that Jewish populations, mostly around ancient Khazaria, WILL exhibit large fraction of this signature, compared to other populations, but we will search non-Jewish populations as well. The POSSIBILITY to reveal the genetic background of these mysterious people through genetic data is one of the most exciting ventures now available with Next Generation Sequencing data."


    Go on please read they words WE SPECULATE, WILL, POSSIBILITY.

    Yep that sure establishes scientific fact and date to contradict the genetic studies to date that have already shown the above thesis is a crock of manure.

    You really want to keep flogging this pathetic attempt to discredit Jews as being Jews to prop some fantasy argument that Zionism is not valid because Jews are Khazars not Jews? Really?

    At this point this is what you will flog, selectively ignoring the genetic studies that are public record and repeating this falsehood?

    There was a time you tried at least to write with a semblance of reason. Now?

    Its interesting after Dr. Eran Elhaik the population geneticist was directly criticized in posts I provided by mainstream scientists stating his theories were rubbish, you simply come back
    pretending you didn't see the previous repudiations, and presenting his speculation as if its somehow valid?

    Really, o.k. you continue and so will I.
     
  6. Yetzerhara

    Yetzerhara Banned

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    As Margot continues to hype the Jews are Khazars and not Jews falsehood and try
    pass off Erlan Elhairk as having scientific data to prove his claim I will continue to respond
    showing why the above is nonsense:

    source: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/soc.culture.jewish/qxTtmNfzLio

    "The Khazarian Hypothesis and the Nature of Yiddish
    Asya Pereltsvaig
    February 25, 2013

    The Khazarian hypothesis, namely that Ashkenazi Jewry derives from the
    Khazars, has recently been revived by Eran Elhaik, a geneticist at
    John Hopkins University. His article “The Missing Link of Jewish
    European Ancestry: Contrasting the Rhineland and the Khazarian
    Hypotheses” appeared in December 2012 in Genome Biology and Evolution
    and was widely publicized before the actual publication. The two
    hypotheses compared in this article depict Eastern European Jews as a
    group that either “emerged from a small group of German Jews who
    migrated eastward and expanded rapidly” (Rhineland hypothesis) or
    “descended from the Khazars, an amalgam of Turkic clans” (Khazarian
    hypothesis). According to the abstract, Elhaik “applied a wide range
    of population genetic analyses” and found evidence to support the
    Khazarian hypothesis.

    The Khazarian hypothesis is most strongly associated with the noted
    Hungarian-Jewish polymath Arthur Koestler, who advanced the hypothesis
    in The Thirteenth Tribe, published in 1976. The Khazars were a nomadic
    tribal confederacy that established a strong, trade-based state
    centered in the lower Volga River during the early Middle Ages. Their
    elite stratum definitely converted to Judaism, although it is unknown
    how deeply the religion penetrated into the rest of their diverse
    society. Although Koestler’s arguments were intriguing, solid evidence
    in support has been lacking, and most recent genetic studies have
    indicated that the Khazarian contribution to European Jewry was
    minimal at best. Until the publication of Elhaik’s work, the Khazarian
    thesis was all but defunct.

    Razib Khan wrote an eminently sensible critique of the genetic,
    historical, and geographical errors in Elhaik’s article, focusing on
    his unsubstantiated use of Armenians as a genetic proxy for the
    Khazars. The genetic affinity between Jews—and not only those of
    Eastern European ancestry, but other Jewish groups as well—and
    Armenians has been noted at least as far back as 2000, when Nebel et
    al. found a connection between Jewish groups worldwide and other
    peoples living in the north of the Fertile Crescent, such as Kurds,
    Turks, and Armenians. Elhaik’s use of Armenians as the proxy for
    Khazarian DNA which reveals a profound lack of understanding of
    historical geography. Razib Khan writes:

    “If you look at the modern state of Armenia this is eminently
    reasonable. But for most of its history Armenia was a marginal
    Caucasian nation, with its center of gravity further south, straddling
    Anatolia and western Iran, and looming over the plains of Mesopotamia.
    The Caucasian nature of modern Armenia is to a great extent a function
    of the extermination of Armenians from much of eastern Anatolia in the
    early 20th century.”


    Now of course the Jews are Khazars theory is used to argue Zionism is not valid and Israel is not valid as a Jewish state, because
    Jews aren't Jews.

    It is without a doubt one of the most half-asped attempts at inventing an anti-Zionist argument there are but it attacks all
    Jews. It insults all Jews and it depends on ignorance.

    There are over 38,000 threads on the internet at any given time spewing this crap. Its like a chain letter.

    Its blatantly false and yet the name of the game is to place it on political forum web sites to incite resentment at Jews
    not just for creating the state of Israel, but for claiming to be Jewish.

    cont. next post
     
  7. Yetzerhara

    Yetzerhara Banned

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    source: Eran Elhaik Is Still Wrong

    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/soc.culture.jewish/qxTtmNfzLio

    The volume of inaccuracies and false assumptions Eran Elhaik made speak for themselves.

    Here are criticisms of his false understanding of history:


    "Thus, if one wants to be historically accurate, one should treat
    Armenians as a northern Fertile Crescent group, not a Caucasian one.
    But equally important, the Khazars were not exactly a Caucasian nation
    either: their capital was in the Volga delta, and most of their empire
    was in the steppe zone, as the map posted on the left shows. As Khan
    writes, and I second, the real “smoking gun” would be genetic links
    with East Asian populations: as the Khazars were Turkic, “they would
    have had substantial proportions of East Asian ancestry”, but no East
    Asian traces in the Jewish gene pool have been reported by Elhaik or
    anyone else, as far as I know. "

    He also has no understanding of geography:

    "Elhaik commits many other errors of historical geography. In the
    abstract alone, he claims that the Khazars “converted to Judaism… in
    the 8th century”, whereas it was mostly their aristocracy that
    converted. He takes the conjecture that “following the collapse of
    their empire, the Judeo-Khazars fled to Eastern Europe” as a proven
    fact. He talks of “Caucasus, European, and Semitic ancestries” as if
    these were commensurate categories, and not a mountain range, a sub-
    continent, and a language family. He also proposes to explain major
    difference among populations of the Caucasus by the early presence of
    Judeans in the Southern and Central Caucasus, while in actuality a
    huge array of genetic diversity exists in the Caucasus regardless of
    Jewish population. "


    cont. next post

    - - - Updated - - -

    source: Eran Elhaik Is Still Wrong

    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/soc.culture.jewish/qxTtmNfzLio

    The volume of inaccuracies and false assumptions Eran Elhaik made speak for themselves.

    Here are criticisms of his false understanding of history:


    "Thus, if one wants to be historically accurate, one should treat
    Armenians as a northern Fertile Crescent group, not a Caucasian one.
    But equally important, the Khazars were not exactly a Caucasian nation
    either: their capital was in the Volga delta, and most of their empire
    was in the steppe zone, as the map posted on the left shows. As Khan
    writes, and I second, the real “smoking gun” would be genetic links
    with East Asian populations: as the Khazars were Turkic, “they would
    have had substantial proportions of East Asian ancestry”, but no East
    Asian traces in the Jewish gene pool have been reported by Elhaik or
    anyone else, as far as I know. "

    He also has no understanding of geography:

    "Elhaik commits many other errors of historical geography. In the
    abstract alone, he claims that the Khazars “converted to Judaism… in
    the 8th century”, whereas it was mostly their aristocracy that
    converted. He takes the conjecture that “following the collapse of
    their empire, the Judeo-Khazars fled to Eastern Europe” as a proven
    fact. He talks of “Caucasus, European, and Semitic ancestries” as if
    these were commensurate categories, and not a mountain range, a sub-
    continent, and a language family. He also proposes to explain major
    difference among populations of the Caucasus by the early presence of
    Judeans in the Southern and Central Caucasus, while in actuality a
    huge array of genetic diversity exists in the Caucasus regardless of
    Jewish population. "


    cont. next post

    - - - Updated - - -

    source: Eran Elhaik Is Still Wrong

    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/soc.culture.jewish/qxTtmNfzLio

    The volume of inaccuracies and false assumptions Eran Elhaik made speak for themselves.

    Here are criticisms of his false understanding of history:


    "Thus, if one wants to be historically accurate, one should treat
    Armenians as a northern Fertile Crescent group, not a Caucasian one.
    But equally important, the Khazars were not exactly a Caucasian nation
    either: their capital was in the Volga delta, and most of their empire
    was in the steppe zone, as the map posted on the left shows. As Khan
    writes, and I second, the real “smoking gun” would be genetic links
    with East Asian populations: as the Khazars were Turkic, “they would
    have had substantial proportions of East Asian ancestry”, but no East
    Asian traces in the Jewish gene pool have been reported by Elhaik or
    anyone else, as far as I know. "

    He also has no understanding of geography:

    "Elhaik commits many other errors of historical geography. In the
    abstract alone, he claims that the Khazars “converted to Judaism… in
    the 8th century”, whereas it was mostly their aristocracy that
    converted. He takes the conjecture that “following the collapse of
    their empire, the Judeo-Khazars fled to Eastern Europe” as a proven
    fact. He talks of “Caucasus, European, and Semitic ancestries” as if
    these were commensurate categories, and not a mountain range, a sub-
    continent, and a language family. He also proposes to explain major
    difference among populations of the Caucasus by the early presence of
    Judeans in the Southern and Central Caucasus, while in actuality a
    huge array of genetic diversity exists in the Caucasus regardless of
    Jewish population. "


    cont. next post
     
  8. Yetzerhara

    Yetzerhara Banned

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    Using Eran Elhaik to spread the false myth Jews are Khazars is nonsense as I am trying to show, but the issue is complex and the falsehoods and stupidities
    of Elhaik so immense it takes more than one sentence to dismiss them-but it is important to do so because people who have the audacity to rely on this
    person and try pass him off as credible need to be challenged and exposed for doing so. There's a reason this individual is a favourite on neo Nazi and Muslim extremist
    hate sites.

    source: Eran Elhaik Is Still Wrong

    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!to...sh/qxTtmNfzLio


    The criticism below comes from the above article.

    In addition to the already mentioned criticism I have indicated the above article also points out that ElHaik made false assumptions as to the origins of Yiddish
    to back his idiotic theory of Jews being Khazars-his idiotic false assumptions and ignorance were exposed but like any idiot, if you repeat his words enough
    times, its hoped they stick.

    "... problems with Elhaik’s paper are not limited to those of
    historical geography. In the discussion section, he ties his flawed
    findings to even worse linguistic theories, specifically to the idea
    that Yiddish, the language of Central and Eastern European Jews,
    “began as a Slavic language that was re-lexified to High German at an
    early date”. The preponderance of Germanic words in Yiddish is clear
    from the page from the Shemot Devarim, a Yiddish-Hebrew-Latin-German
    dictionary and thesaurus, published by Elia Levita in 1542 and
    reproduced on the left.

    The theory that Yiddish is a Slavic language
    was originally proposed by Paul Wexler in his 1993 book The Ashkenazic
    Jews: A Slavo-Turkic People in Search of a Jewish Identity, a sequel
    of sorts to his 1990 book in which he argues that Modern Hebrew too is
    a Slavic language, re-lexified to Biblical Hebrew. Considering
    Wexler’s book on Hebrew would take us too far afield, but what about
    this idea that Yiddish is really a Slavic language?

    First, it seems odd that a Turkic people who moved to Europe via
    Romania and Hungary would somehow acquire a Slavic language on the
    way. No traces of Turkic, Romance, or Uralic linguistic influences
    have ever been identified in Yiddish. Second, no clear cases have been
    described in which a language changes most or all of its vocabulary
    drawing on that of another language. If such a transformation were to
    happen, the old form of the language and the new one would be mutually
    incomprehensible, so it is hardly likely that either its speakers or
    linguists would use the same label for it, as if it were the same
    language.

    Many instances of language shift have been attested, but
    they are always described as a shift from one language to another, not
    a switch from one form of a language to a mutually incomprehensible
    one.

    But most crucially, Yiddish is not only non-Slavic in its vocabulary,
    but also in its grammar. This is particularly obvious if we compare
    Yiddish to Sorbian: the former is a Germanic language with some Slavic
    influences, whereas the latter is a Slavic language with Germanic
    influences.

    Let’s consider Sorbian first, which makes a fitting
    comparison for Yiddish because both modern Sorbian varieties—Upper and
    Lower Sorbian—are surrounded by German-speaking territory. Neither
    Sorbian-speaking group has an autonomous region of its own:

    “Upper Sorbs live mostly in southern Lusatia in Saxony and Lower
    Sorbs in the Niederlausitz region; they have long been an ethnic
    minority in Germany. Sorbian monolingualism ceased before World War
    II; nearly all Upper Sorbian speakers are fully bilingual in German
    and use primarily German; Lower Sorbian is serious endangered. Both
    languages show significant impact of contact with German, change which
    has been almost entirely unidirectional.” (Lenore A. Grenoble,
    “Contact and the Development of the Slavic Languages”, p. 588)

    One example of German grammatical influence on Sorbian is the merger
    of the two uses of the instrumental case. Grenoble describes “the pan-
    Slavic pattern” as making “a distinction between the instrumental or
    absolute use of the instrumental case, which does not occur with a
    preposition, and the instrumental of accompaniment, which is used with
    the preposition ‘with’” (ibid). For example, compare the Russian Ja
    rabotaju golovoj (literally, ‘I work head.INSTR’) with Ja rabotaju s
    Martinom (literally, ‘I work with Martin.INSTR’). In Upper Sorbian,
    however, “these two usages are collapsed and are found only with the
    preposition z ‘with’” (ibid). Compare the Upper Sorbian Ja dźělam z
    ruku ‘I work with my hand’ (instrument) and Ja rěčг z prěćelom ‘I
    speak with my friend’ (accompaniment).

    But while this example illustrates German grammatical influence on
    Sorbian, it also underscores the underlying Slavic grammar of the
    language: like most other Slavic tongues, Sorbian maintains a rich
    system of seven cases (including the vocative) and marks them on the
    nouns themselves. In comparison, Yiddish has only four cases and marks
    them on the determiners such as the article ‘the’.

    Furthermore, Sorbian adjectives decline according to the same seven cases as nouns;
    when an adjective is used to modify a noun, they must agree in case.

    Yiddish, in contrast, do not mark cases on adjectives; instead, there
    are different forms are used for adjectives in attributive (i.e.
    modifying) and predicative positions. For example, the form of the
    adjective ‘good’ in Yiddish is different in ‘The good man left’ and
    ‘The man is good’—much like in German or Norwegian, and as it used to
    be in Ye Olde English period. Sorbian is also noted for its retention
    of the dual number, a special form used in reference to two objects,
    as opposed to one (singular) or three or more (plural). Common Slavic
    had a dual number and most modern Slavic languages retain some
    vestiges of it. In modern Russian, for instance, the former dual is
    reflected in the forms of some modern plurals in which the stem-final
    velars k and x palatalized into č and š (e.g. Russian oči ‘eyes’ and
    uši ‘ears’). The older dual is also to blame for the fact that a
    different form of a noun is used with ‘two’ (extended also to numerals
    ‘three’ and ‘four’), as opposed to ‘five’ and up: for example, one
    says dva mal’čika (literally ‘two boy’ in the genitive singular), but
    pjat’ mal’čikov (literally ‘five boys’ in the genitive plural). In
    modern Sorbian, two hands is ruce, but three or more hands is ruki.
    Yiddish, in contrast, has no dual, and neither do other Germanic
    languages.

    When it comes to syntax, Sorbian and Yiddish differ as to the order of
    major sentence constituents: Yiddish exhibits the Verb-Second
    phenomenon: the finite verb—auxiliary if one is present, and the
    lexical verb otherwise—must appear in the second position in a main
    clause. For example, in the sentence Oyfn veg vet dos yingl zen a kats
    (literally ‘On the way will the boy see a cat’), the auxiliary vet
    ‘will’ appears right after the prepositional phrase oyfn veg ‘on the
    way’ rather than after the subject dos yingl ‘the boy’, unlike in the
    corresponding English sentence On the way, the boy will see a cat,
    where both ‘on the way’ and the subject must precede the verb. In
    fact, English is the only Germanic language that lacks the Verb-Second
    (except in some marginal sentence types). "

    cont. next post
     
  9. Yetzerhara

    Yetzerhara Banned

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    Coming on this forum and propogating that Kews are Khazars is in my opinion nasty anti-Semitism at its worst. Its done to attack all Jews as being frauds and then in the context of saying this makes their having a Jewish state invalid. It shows vividly how Israel's existence and attacking all Jews for existing as Jews is intertwined by anti-semites.


    I again repeat yet another summary of the scientific evidence that has repudiated the myth that Jews are Khazars:

    Ultimately, Ashkenazi Jews have been found to have a strong DNA connection to Israelites and the Middle East,[4] sharing many common genes with other Jews from approximately 3000 years ago,[5] which “does not support this [Khazar conversion] idea.”[6]

    Abraham Eliyahu Harkavi had suggested as early as 1869 that there might be a link between the Khazars and European Jews. The theory, however, that Khazar converts formed a major proportion of Ashkenazi Jews was first proposed to a Western public by Ernest Renan in 1883.

    The idea was taken up by a number of Jewish historians, including Sigmund Freud, and authors like H. G. Wells (1921). But the Khazar-Ashkenazi hypothesis came to the attention of a much wider public with the publication of The Thirteenth Tribe, by agent of the CIA Arthur Koestler in 1976. But Koestler's work was mainly a hsitory of the Khazars, and merely provides a suggestion that European Jews may be descended from them, without providing any proof.

    The last 15 years has seen a large number of genetic studies on Jewish populations worldwide, which conclude: “The consensus research holds that most Ashkenazi Jews, as well as many Jews tracing their lineage to Italy, North Africa, Iraq, Iran, Kurdish regions and Yemen, share common paternal haplotypes also found among many Arabs from Palestine, Lebanon and Syria.”[7]

    Nadine Epstein, an editor and executive publisher of Moment magazine said “When I read Arthur Koestler’s The Thirteenth Tribe, I bought his theory that Ashkenazim were descended from the Khazars… But in 1997, Karl Skorecki in Haifa, Michael Hammer in Tucson and several London researchers surprised everyone by finding evidence of the Jewish priestly line of males, the Kohanim. Half of Ashkenazic men and slightly more than half of Sephardic men who claimed to be Kohanim were found to have a distinctive set of genetic markers on their Y chromosome, making it highly possible that they are descendants of a single male or group of related males who lived between 1180 and 650 B.C.E., about the time of Moses and Aaron.[8]

    In 2000, the analysis of a report by Nicholas Wade, titled Y Chromosome Bears Witness to Story of the Jewish Diaspora, “provided genetic witness that these [Jewish] communities have, to a remarkable extent, retained their biological identity separate from their host populations, evidence of relatively little intermarriage or conversion into Judaism over the centuries… The results accord with Jewish history and tradition and refute theories like those holding that Jewish communities consist mostly of converts from other faiths, or that they are descended from the Khazars, a medieval Turkish tribe that adopted Judaism.” [9]

    A 2001 study found that Jews were closer to groups in the north of the Fertile Crescent, such as Kurds, Assyrians, Turks, and Armenians, than to their Arab neighbors, whose “chromosomes might have been introduced through migrations from the Arabian Peninsula during the last two millennia.”[10]

    In 2010, Atzmon et al. presented research refuting the possibility of large-scale genetic contributions of Central and Eastern European and Slavic populations to the formation of Ashkenazi Jewry. Ashkenazi Jews, part of European/Syrian Jewish populations, shared a proximity to each other and to French, Northern Italian, and Sardinian populations which was found to be incompatible with any theory maintaining that the Askhenazi were direct lineal descendants of Khazars or Slavs. They did allow that some Slavic or Khazarian admixture might have taken place during the second millennium, and noted that the 7.5% prevalence of the R1a1 haplogroup., common among Ukrainians, Russians and Sorbs, as well as among Central Asian populations, among Ashkenazi Jews has led to interpretations for a possible Slavic or Khazar admixture, although this admixture may have resulted only from mixing with Ukrainians, Poles, or Russians, rather than with the Khazars.[11]

    Using four Jewish groups, one being Ashkenazi, a Kopelman et al study found no direct evidence to the Khazar theory[12] while another study concluded that its findings “debunk one of the most questionable, but still tenacious, hypotheses: that most Ashkenazi Jews can trace their roots to the mysterious Khazar Kingdom that flourished during the ninth century in the region between the Byzantine Empire and the Persian Empire.”[13]

    Some scientists believe that even if the theory were to be true, “only a small minority of the Khazars may have adopted Judaism.”[14] and that “the questions of whether there was a Khazar contribution to the Ashkenazi Jews’ lineage, or exactly what percentage of mitochondrial variants emanate from Europe, cannot be answered with certainty using present genetic and geographical data.”[15]

    In 2013, the results of the largest genetic study on Jews released by the Wayne State University found that Ashkenazi, North African, and Sephardi Jews shared substantial genetic ancestry, that they derive from Middle Eastern and European populations and found no detectable Khazar genetic origins.[16] Another 2013 study of Ashkenazi mitochondrial DNA, found no significant evidence of Khazar contribution to the Ashkenazi Jewish DNA, as would be predicted by the Khazar hypothesis.[17]


    sources for the above:

    1] Johnson. A History of the Jews, p. 171


    [2] Entine, Jon. "Israeli Researcher Challenges Jewish DNA links to Israel, Calls Those Who Disagree 'Nazi Sympathizers'", Forbes, May 16, 2013


    [3] Melissa Hogenboom, 'European link to Jewish maternal ancestry BBC News, 9 October 2013; "No indication of Khazar genetic ancestry among Ashkenazi Jews". ASHG. Retrieved 5 November 2013.


    [4] Middle East origins: Jared Diamond (1993). "Who are the Jews?". Retrieved November 8, 2010. Natural History 102:11 (November 1993): 12-19; "Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes". Retrieved 11 October 2012; Shriver, Tony N. Frudakis ; with a chapter 1 introduction by Mark D. (2008). Molecular photofitting : predicting ancestry and phenotype using DNA. Amsterdam: Elsevier/Academic Press. ISBN 9780120884926. sharing many common genes with other Jews from 3,000 years ago.


    [5] Wade, Nicholas (June 9, 2010). "Studies Show Jews’ Genetic Similarity". New York Times. Retrieved 8 November 2013; "Who Are the Jews? Genetic Studies Spark Identity Debate". Albert Einstein College of Medicine. Retrieved 9 November 2013.


    [6] "Jews worldwide share genetic ties". Nature (journal). 3 June 2010. Retrieved 9 November 2013.


    [7]http://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/2013/10/08/ashkenazi-jewish-women-descended-mostly-from-italian-converts-new-study-asserts/


    [8] "Jewish Genetics: Abstracts and Summaries". Retrieved 9 November 2013.


    [9] "Jewish Genetics: Abstracts and Summaries". Retrieved 9 November 2013.


    [10] Almut Nebel, Dvora Filon, Bernd Brinkmann, Partha P. Majumder, Marina Faerman, Ariella Oppenheim. "The Y Chromosome Pool of Jews as Part of the Genetic Landscape of the Middle East", (The American Journal of Human Genetics (2001), Volume 69, number 5. pp. 1095–112).


    [11] G.Atzmon, L.Hao, I.Pe'er, C.Velez, A.Pearlman, P.F.Palamara, B.Morrow, E.Friedman, C.Oddoux, E.Burns and H.Ostrer. Abraham's Children in the Genome Era: Major Jewish Diaspora Populations Comprise Distinct Genetic Clusters with Shared Midde Eastern Ancestry. The American Journal of Human Genetics, 03 June 2010.


    [12] Kopelman NM, Stone L, Wang C, et al. (2009). "Genomic microsatellites identify shared Jewish ancestry intermediate between Middle Eastern and European populations". BMC Genetics 10: 80. doi:10.1186/1471-2156-10-80. PMC 2797531. PMID 19995433.


    [13] "New Study Finds Most Ashkenazi Jews Genetically Linked to Europe". Jewishvoiceny.com. 2013-10-16. Retrieved 2013-10-31.


    [14] "Genomic microsatellites identify shared Jewish ancestry intermediate between Middle Eastern and European populations". Retrieved 9 November 2013.


    [15] "Jewish Genetics: Abstracts and Summaries". Retrieved 9 November 2013.


    [16] http://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1040&context=humbiol_preprints


    [17] "A substantial prehistoric European ancestry amongst Ashkenazi maternal lineages". Nature Communications. Retrieved 8 November 2013.


    The above can be found in its entirety from the article, " Myth of the Khazar Ancestry of the Jews ", by David Livingstone

    http://www.conspiracyschool.com/blog/myth-khazar-ancestry-jews

    - - - Updated - - -

    Yes but the name of the game is to keep repeating the rubbish over and over. On internet forums, sheer volume or reputation of a falsehood
    gives it a new life and can incite new anti semitic tirades and beliefs.
     
  10. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    I have no idea.. that's why I posted the links.. Jews also share genetic markers with Arabs.. I have a dear friend from Morocco.. She is Sephardic .. We play dominos with Ashkenazi Jews whose grandparents were from Russia and the Ukraine. They teach us Yiddish words. The girls I attended boarding school with in South Carolina were old line Sephardic Jews.. beautiful girls with very white skin and dark eyes.

    The same mix is in my book club.. and they are an impressive bunch.. particularly when it comes to service organizations.
     
  11. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    comparing the genetics of one group of Jews to the genetics of another group of Jews, to prove they come from non-Jews, is comical.

    :)
     
  12. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wrong.

    J1 aka J-M267 is common in parts of North and eastern Africa. Most black Africans do not have it, but some do. Including the Lemba in South Africa who claim to be Jews. Ethiopians also have it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J-M267#North_Africa_and_Horn_of_Africa
     
  13. undertheradar

    undertheradar Newly Registered

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    Incorrect. See Arthur Koestler's The Thirteenth Tribe. This work shows how it was the people of Khazaria who converted to Judaism around the 8th century.
     
  14. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    This is just facts.

    Not sure why ppl deny it, can anybody explain why jewish ppl are so opposed to their khazar heritage?
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2023
  15. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Genetic research shows Ashkenazi Jews are descended from Israelite men who took wives in Italy and neighboring parts of the Roman Empire.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2023
  16. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    right...lol
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2023
  17. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You can laugh at scientific facts all you like.

    It has a lot more evidence behind it than the silly Bible fantasy comic book.
     
  18. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    What facts?
     
  19. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Very thorough and comprehensive genetic research of Ashkenazi Jews.

    It shows that they are descended from Israelites and people in around Italy, during the Roman times.

    But you can disregard and laugh at the research all you like. I'm sure the fantasy comic book known as the Bible has more scientific evidence.

    LOLOLOL!!!!! :)
     
  20. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    So, no facts then
     
  21. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    Black americans are the real Jews, praise Yah the almighty.
     
  22. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    LOL!!!!

    Fake news, racist propaganda and disinformation.

    Jews can be of any race, and it is absolutely racist to say that a non black person cannot be a Jew.
     
  23. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    You're entitled to your opinion. It's not racist to say black americans are the real Jews. It would be racist if isaid blacks are the real Jews but idont believe that.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2023
  24. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is racist to say that white people and other non black people cannot be Jews. It is racist to say that Ashkenazi Jews are in fact fake Jews because of their skin color.

    Especially considering the inside of their hands and the bottom of the feet of black people is light skinned, not black. Which suggests that their ancient non-human ancestors did not have black skin.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2023
  25. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    Never said that. Whites can convert to Judaism as they have done and be considered Jewish
     

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