At least 3 children and 3 adults killed in Nashville elementary school shooting

Yeah because it is a non lethal lovely bit of steel that would not hurt anyone ever

 

Lead. And copper.
All I see here is your inability to meaningfully respond, for you too have been made victim of your ignorance.
5.56x45 is, on ts best day, an intermediate-power cartridge, so intermediate that most people - and several states - consider it under-powered for hunting deer.

 

Here’s the thing, I don’t think this idiot knew what rounds do what. You and I and other get it, this clown doesn’t seem to have that kind of knowledge. I’d say lucky guess or just the first one on the shelf is how he came to those decisions.

 

The poster you are responding to really does show his complete ignorance on firearms. There is not a military in the world which uses an AR-15. They are not "military grade" anything. They are specifically standard civilian rifles and extremely popular ones for a wide variety of uses. No selector switch or three round burst means it is not a "military grade killing machine".

It is sad that the loudest fools always seem to know the least about the topic they are shouting about.

 

We have enough stupid and pointless laws. There’s also no way of enforcing any of that, what a waste.

 

I wonder if before being shot, the perp said it was because they don't like Monday.

 

Par for the Bowerbird course.
Note her lack of response to my post.

 

An AR-15 is not military grade. Military grade weapons are a LOT more lethal.
Having said that the AR-15 is closely related to the military M16 and M4 Carbine rifles, which all share the same core design.

 

Buri may be right but.....

I'll leave this here for those that disagree with my observations AND will actually watch and read the evidence.....the price point, easy of operation, speed, round design and payload make this weapon easier to be accurate and cause significantly more debilitating body trauma PERIOD.

"How damaging is a .223 round?

223-caliber round wobbles or corkscrews in flight, making it far deadlier than the . 30-caliber bullet it replaced. It ricochets and tears organs. It can enter the ankle and exit the shoulder."

"Do AR-15 bullets do more damage?

A bullet from the AR-15 rifle is three times as fast and as powerful as a bullet from a handgun. The bullet tumbles, so it damages a lot more tissue than bullets that travel in a straight line through the body, said Dr. Peter Thomas, director of the trauma program at St. Luke's University Health Network."

The Simple Physics That Makes Some Bullets Deadlier Than Others

"What makes the .223 potentially deadlier than the .22 is its velocity. When the .223 exits the barrel of a gun, it flies at more than 3,200 feet per second, and is still going 1,660 feet per second after traveling 500 yards. The .22, meanwhile, leaves the muzzle at 2,690 feet per second, and slows to 840 feet per second at 500 yards. At that long distance, the .223 will slam into its target with almost twice the speed of the .22. The .223 is carrying 335 foot-pounds of force, while the .22 carries 70 foot-pounds.
Slow-motion videos of ballistics tests clearly illustrate this difference. Watch the .22 and the .223 tested on blocks of ballistics gelatin, a material that mimics human tissue. The .223 generates a far larger shock wave, and penetrates farther, than the .22.
Developed in the early 1960s, the .223 round was first used in Vietnam. The U.S. military collected reports of its effects on the first Viet Cong combatants to be shot with the bullet. Here’s what they found it did to those enemies’ bodies, as republished in New York Times reporter C.J. Chivers’s history of the assault rifle, The Gun:"

What I Saw Treating the Victims From Parkland Should Change the Debate on Guns

"They weren’t the first mass-shooting victims the Florida radiologist saw—but their wounds were radically different."

How Assault-Style Rifles and Ammunition Kill and Maim

"Dangerous high-velocity ammunition
Ammunition is often defined by its calibre — that is, by the diameter of the projectile fired. Firearm calibres are designated in millimetres or inches. The .223-inch calibre ammunition (or 5.56mm) used in most AR-15s is smaller than the rounds employed in many rifles traditionally used for hunting game, like the .308.

However, the small size of the .223 ammunition doesn’t mean it’s safe. It was developed in response to the American military’s desire in the post-Second World War period to create a small-calibre, high-velocity weapon. The .223 round was light, meaning that soldiers could easily carry many rounds for their rifles.

The firearms industry mass-marketed semi-automatic rifles like the AR-15, and such weapons became increasingly popular by the late 20th century. Unfortunately, rifles firing .223 ammunition also frequently became a favourite weapon of mass shooters.

Defenders of the AR-15 sometimes downplay the dangers of such guns. For example, in 2020, the vice-president of a Canadian gun lobby group, the Canadian Coalition for Firearm Rights, tweeted a picture of her AR-15 and called it a “a low-powered sport rifle.”

However, doctors who have treated the victims of mass casualty events have described the serious injuries inflicted by ammunition fired from assault-style rifles.

Graphic detail of injuries and damage
While gun advocates generally avoid discussing the harm that assault-style rifles can cause, there are exceptions.

Before he became CEO of the Canadian Coalition for Firearm Rights, Rod Giltaca explained in graphic detail the dangers of the .223 round on his YouTube channel.

Giltaca introduced his 2013 video, focused on wound characteristics, by stating that there was “some misconception about the .223 cartridge” and that he wanted to show “how dangerous that cartridge still is, even though, yes, it’s a small bullet.” He pointed out that unlike rounds fired from handguns, the “.223 travels really, really fast, and that creates some problems should you get hit with it.”

WATCH: The Science Behind Why Some Bullets Are More Destructive Than Others
^^2.30 min video at link




And for the FMJ fans from an everyday perspective, likely no exit wound if not FMJ:


My last post on this as I don't generally suffer foolish arguements

 

No AR-15 round tumbles or ever has. He is confusing very old, older than 50 years, fast twist barrels with heavier ammo. With a fast twist barrel and a heavier nonstandard round you can get a yaw at the rear of the bullet but that is not an end over end tumble. Virtually all ARs manufactured since 1980 at the latest are no twist but a few expensive specialty barrels are low twist but even then you again have to use a special heavier grain ammo which is nonstandard.

A good run down on the old tumbling myth which is untrue.

 

She has no idea what any of this means.

 

For all the debate and back an forth on this thread I think we are missing the most important point.

What can be done to try and prevent things like this in the future?

As part of looking into a solution we need to ask the question why is this a uniquely American problem? What are other countries doing that we are not? Why can't we adopt those policies for this country?

 

It's not right. That "tumble" was only in the early models, which had a 1 in 14 twist in the barrel. That was realized fairly early, and while intended to give the round a faster spin and increase range, it spun it so fast it became unstable.

That was resolved decades ago, and for over 50 years the barrel has had a twist between 1 in 7 to 1 in 9. Yet those that know little to nothing about weapons still try to pull out data that is over 50 years old and point out things that were resolved by 1967 when the M-16A1 was issued.

 

I am pretty sure you are right. Hell, if the guy wanted to talk about "more dangerous" types of ammo then he should talk about hollow points which mushroom to cause more soft tissue damage not copper clad rounds which are specifically designed to go clear through soft tissue.

 

You do not want to live in a society where the laws are sufficient to prevent school shootings.

 

Actually, they did. But as I just pointed out, only the very earliest models. Only around 20,000 were made with a 1 in 14 barrel twist, and those were all original M-16 models. That had already been resolved even before the A1 came out. And I doubt there are more than a handful of original M16 model rifles around other than in museums that have the original 1 in 14 twist.

 

Whoever told you this lied - and you let them.

 

another issue the guys who talk about ammo tend to miss is barrel length. Shorter barrels rob the round of velocity, and those rounds rated at X velocity are measured from a standard length barrel. That’s a good vid!

 

And? Why should it be free? Someone has to provide the service.

 

And Democrats resist any form of National Database with mandatory reporting so those with a dangerous mental condition can be tracked and prevented from purchasing firearms.

 

I was referring to the militias back when the 2A was written. National Guards which some seem to want to say is the "well regulated" militia didn't exist back then.

 

We already do back ground checks including mental health records so not much meaningful improvement can be done there. Certainly not more which has a high likelihood of committing crimes. After all we can only see if people have a past history of committing crimes not if they will ever commit any crimes in the future. Also, no, you are absolutely incorrect as mass shootings are not "uniquely American" nor does America even have the highest rate of mass shootings. Mass shootings aren't even a significant number of fire arms deaths in America and are usually less than 1% of fire arms deaths. Suicide is the leading cause of firearms death followed by murder and the vast, vast, vast majority of those murders are gang related. Mostly by non-white suspects.

The number varies a little bit usually blacks commit 52%-57% of all murders despite only being a little more than 13% of the population with Hispanics committing another 20%. The remaining around 25% are committed by everyone else; whites, Asians, native Americans, etc... If we are honest about wanting to decrease gun deaths then suicide prevention should be our first target followed by figuring out how to get young black men to stop killing each other followed by young Hispanic men for the same.

That is, if we care about what the actual data shows us.

 

Which is useless, as there is no database to track them on, and no mandatory reporting.

James Holmes was seeing a shrink, who was already concerned because she thought he was a danger to himself and others and had multiple firearms. But she was not mandated to tell anybody, and told nobody. And this happens all the damned time. After some shooter goes berserk, we often hear from shrinks and others they were concerned. Yet, nobody did anything.

And as we have no national database, there is absolutely nothing to stop somebody from say Colorado from going to Wyoming to buy a gun. The few databases there are are only kept by the individual states and shared with nobody else.

 

And if they had, nothing would have happened.
"Seeing a shrink", regardless of his evaluation, does not make you a prohibited person, and therefore will not prevent you from buying a gun.

 

Did you know that I can show you a hunting rifle which your great grandfather might have owned that has very, very similar action as an AR 15? Virtually the same minus a few minor details. So what is the difference? The looks? You get scared because of the looks even when mechanically the action is as close to identical as can be?

Your argument seems based on superficial nonsense like the look of a rifle rather than any definable mechanical differences. Hell, 90% of the antigun nuts wouldn't be able to identify an M4 carbine or understand that machanically it is virtually the same. I could name WW1 rifles or even older which are mechanically virtually the same but because of their look the nutters don't automatically wet their pants.