Atheists: where do you think we and the universe came from?

You want to distance yourself from believers and then make your side seem more morally "good".

 

We've really gotten to this point? Seriously? Now saying that theists believe in God and atheists don't is part of some plot? Now pointing out that there is a plurality of opinion among both atheists and theists is an attempt to malign theists?

 

The simple and direct answer would be....we do not know, and likely never will.

I personally think that our universe and the reality it contains is the result of energy produced by larger and more complex, unknown and unknowable things interacting or colliding at some point. From this we got a Big Bang,time and that which we can see.

This of course is opinion and supposition.

 

If you are going to use that argument, where do you think God came from?

 

sounds like that what your doing to me....

I mentioned no such thing, I am simply saying not all atheists or theist believe the same things

 

But you're making that distinction to prove a point. I'm simply addressing that point.

 

The question's asked in the OP are unknowable. There are epistemological limits to what our brains can "know." The question, where does everything come from is equivalent to asking an ant directions to Cleveland.

Science (Scientists) have a lot of hubris to think they can "know" everything.

We're a speck of matter in space and time...on an insignificant planet...and what we can "know" is limited.
This is Earth as seen from more than 6 billion kilometers away. (3.7 billion miles)



"God" is as good an explanation as anything else.

Martin Gardner used to write a "Mathematical Games" column in Scientific America: Asked, how much can we know about the universe?

I like Gardner's admission...hey some things we don't know, we'll never know. Identifying as "Mysterian" is the embrace and acceptance of the unknowable. Rather than define myself as a Theologian..a believer in God, perhaps "Mysterian" is a better description. God is ultimately a mystery..and even if there's no God...that's a mystery to.

 

The fact is
We do not know the answer to all of our questions
But we know a lot more than we knew 3000 years ago

it is glib to propose that each of these questions is neatly answered by inserting god
And that therefore god must exist

And yes, the universe looks brilliantly intricate in a way that suggests design
Which in turn suggests a designer
Otoh there are innumerable examples of flawed design... Like birth defects
Or senseless design.... Like the appendix, or the tail bone
Or callous design... Like giant tsunamis,

Also of note
We see that our idea of god and his universe has significantly shifted over 3000 plus years
And i doubt that is because god has changed
I suspect that if we survive another 3000 years
our ideas of god and the universe will have continued to shift

I accept your belief in god
But it is exactly that.... YOUR BELIEF
Imo it is indistinguishable from the dramatically different beliefs
Of innumerable different cultures over the long course of history

Your belief is convincing to you, just as their beliefs were obviously true to all those other people
And the fact is that there is no way to simultaneously reconcile a faith based religion
with all the various proofs that you present
The more provable god requires less faith

As far as lawrence krauss
I think he has some interesting ideas
But neither he nor i go so far as you in proposing them as absolute TRUTH

there are lots of ideas, and lots of questions
Some people cannot live with that reality
And the idea of a god is a expedient salve for their discomfort about the unknown

Imo, any concept of god raises exponentially more questions than it resolves
Those questions are formulaically dismissed by saying that we cannot know gods mind or plan
..... Why do innocent children suffer and die?....WE CANNOT KNOW BLAH BLAH BLAH

 

the only point is that not all Atheists believe the same things.... or Theists for that matter

 

After this response, I doubt you'll reply to me. You're using very very old information to try to prove a point.

Not too sure what else you were trying to say. You're saying my belief in God is my belief. However, I have a great deal of evidence to believe what I do. What evidence do you have for atheism?

 

As an Atheist I don't know, we are here as far as we humans can tell but who knows I could be a madhouse in a straight jacket and this all could be a demented fiction.

 

Atheists all believe there is no God. Monotheists (Christians, Muslims and Jews) believe in only one God. Polytheists such as Hindus and Egyptians believe in multiple gods. Theists are not the same, which is why there are different groups of theists. However, all atheists believe in no god.

What you're doing is distracting from the fact that you're trying to separate yourself from those who believe in God (specifically, Muslims, Jews and Christians) by making such a distinction and attempting to color "believers" as morally corrupt. However, as the 20th century has shown, atheists are the most cruel of all.

 

Actually, there is more and more evidence suggesting what the Eastern minds have always said: The Universe (time, space, matter, energy) has always existed in one form or another.

It is illogical for something to have come from nothing. The Universe is eternal.

http://phys.org/news/2015-02-big-quantum-equation-universe.html

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Who says Christians are monotheists ? The Trinity borders on polytheism by definition alone. Words have meanings - You can't believe Jesus and the Father are separate entities of different mind and thought and claim you believe in only one deity.

 

The Holy Trinity is not 3 gods. It's one God manifested in 3 persons.

 

No, you just want to belong to the big boys club of monotheism even though you're not. It isn't logical or logistically meaningful to say there is one God who is three beings at the same time. Hindus believe there is one God that is everything at the same time. Are they monotheists ? And who was Jesus talking to when on the Cross he said, "Forgive them, for they know not what they do."

 

Some of those Muslims have told me that Jesus was a great prophet... and that is as far as they would go in extending to him any title of nobility. So try again.

 

LOL. Whatever you say.

 

Isn't it a fair question ? Who was Jesus talking to while praying ? Who was he asking to "forgive them, for they know not what they do" ?

 

Were they educated Muslims who had actually read the Quran? Did you specifically ask them if Jesus was the Messiah? I've been searching for a while, and I can't find a single Muslim source that says Jesus was not the Messiah, and yet I'm finding hundreds that say he was. It would probably help to realize the Muslims, like Jews, believed that the Messiah was/would be a human messenger of God, not God incarnate. Thus, there is no contradiction between seeing Jesus as the Messiah and seeing him as a great prophet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam
http://www.whyislam.org/comparative-religion-2/the-messiah-jesus-son-of-mary/
http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/230/descriptive-titles-of-jesus-in-quran-part-1/
http://www.islam-101.org/
http://christiananswers.net/q-eden/quran-jesus.html

Meanwhile, again, I can't find a single Muslim source that says Jesus wasn't the Messiah. So try again.

 

It is frequently referred to as "soft polytheism", also common in Hinduism and Egyptian polytheism. Although Hindus sometimes speak of these different gods as being "masks" of the same entity, while Trinitarians speak of the three persons of the Trinity as being more independent than that. So really, some Hindus are more monotheistic than mainstream Christians are.

 

I am not trying to prove atheism
You seem like you are trying to prove your idiosyncratic theistic views
And i find those views neither proved, nor convincing
Imo we do not, and cannot know the origin of the universe
Is there a creator god?
Maybe
But i have no reason to believe this god uniquely revealed himself via a covenant with an obscure little tribe in the desert... A tribe who by the way sacrificed animals to worship this god
Not exactly sure how the creator of the universe might require that, along with all the other jewish laws
I gotta say the old testament reads more like a soap opera than the revelation of the creator of this incredible universe

 

Then I rest my case...

 

I dunno how to respond without being sarcastic.

 

If it's so obvious and easy to answer, why can't you ? It's a logical question which you're unable to answer. It's not for a lack of trying, but rather an inability to.

 

If you had any evidence at all, you would have posted it.

Proof of God, or even strong indications would be significant to mankind.