Australia to acquire nuclear submarine fleet as part of historic deal with US & UK to counter Chin

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Bush Lawyer, Sep 15, 2021.

  1. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

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    ''Allies''.
     
  2. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I'm half/half on this. I think there was at least on the surface a feeling of abandonment by the US of allies in Afghanistan. Mostly evidenced by bluster coming from the UK, and frankly probably justified to some extent.

    For me, this deal tremendously alters that perspective and concretely and demonstratively gives the feeling that the US is back, certainly more so than with Trump. And also that behind the scenes we are certainly very very close allies. US is giving us nuclear submarine technology, after all.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021
  3. Flynn from Az

    Flynn from Az Well-Known Member

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    What was the US mission in Syria, do you even know?
    How do you justify a illegal occupation of another country?
    I’ll wait.
     
  4. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member

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    15 or 20 years ago I would have decried this. But frankly the world has changed. I don't want the Chinese or the Indonesian bayonetting our pregnant mother's thanks.

    I probably would have agreed with Keating's assessment that this may lessen our ability to operate independently from the US as well, but now frankly I think that on the important stuff we will be very mostly in line with the US and UK. At the end of the day you have to pick a side and China is not our friend.

    Finally, it makes more practical sense to purchase from the US, not only given our common Anglo roots but given the French people's reputation for not being enthusiastic to speak English.

    "Um, so I've got a bit of a rattle in the engine. How do we fix this?"

    "Je suis désolé, je ne comprends pas??"
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021
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  5. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    I tend to judge by actions rather than words. Whatever the UK may have been saying, it just entered into a formal agreement with Australia & the US to counter China. Clearly that has been in negotiation for some time - before the mess in Afghanistan. Clearly that mess didn't dissuade Britain from signing up. So, British actions indicate enough trust in the US to sign up to an alliance against the rising power in the world.

    Biden is taking the issue of China's expansion into this region more seriously than Trump ever did. That is very good news.
     
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  6. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    US conservative once again comments on a issue he knows literally nothing about in order to 'own Libs'. Truly sad, if 100% predictable.
     
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  7. Flynn from Az

    Flynn from Az Well-Known Member

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    I’m not a conservative, so there’s that. Next, the OP
    Is partisan in nature. Feel free to apologize anytime you want.
     
  8. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member

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    I'm genuinely heartened to hear you say that. I suspected that it was just one of those superficial thing that countries do to appease their own population (the anti-Biden/US bluster), whereas at the strategic level and at the deeper level we are obviously much closer.

    But sometimes one gets caught up in the media scrum. And particularly when the US had a President who actually took that superficial media stuff seriously and cared about it and reacted to it, it has taken quite a few months to readjust to having more mature leadership.

    I think you have made important final points. I agree, and the fact that our Conservative PM is cementing a deal with a Democrat US President suggests that there is a deeper non-partisan arrangement intact.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021
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  9. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

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    double post
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021
  10. Flynn from Az

    Flynn from Az Well-Known Member

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    The last part of your statement was correct, but the mission was never to assist the Kurds in creating a autonomous Kurdish region. It was too help the Kurds fight the problem the US created in the first place by invading Iraq, and further destabilizing the region was in the first place.
     
  11. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    and you support this ? What good can come from nuclear proliferation ?
     
  12. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    OK, so you are just another ignorant American commenting on things they know nothing about. Met my first one over 40 years ago and they are always the same. Get back to me when you learn enough about the topic to write something informed. I won't hold my breath.
     
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  13. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member

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    This isn't about nuclear proliferation. It's about quiet and fast submarines that can stay underwater for long stretches at a time.
     
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  14. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    What 'nuclear proliferation' are you talking about? You do understand that we are getting nuclear powered subs, not nuclear weapons.

    I don't see any great harm in an advanced Western nation running nuclear powered subs. I am agnoistic on the specific platform. I'm not convinced we need it, but I don't have any specific objection to obtaining it. The subs will likely be better tha nthe ones we were supposed to purchase.
     
  15. Flynn from Az

    Flynn from Az Well-Known Member

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    So scraping the French sub program too buy American subs isn’t Military spending. Got it.:rolleyes:
     
  16. joesnagg

    joesnagg Well-Known Member

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    I get such a kick over all the whining about China's ascendancy, WELL WHO THE HELL PUT 'EM ON THAT ROAD AND KEEPS 'EM ROLLIN'??? Sooooooooo.....how many parts used in the subs will be MANUFACTURED IN CHINA, LOL.:roll:
     
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  17. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member

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    Nothing wrong with an expanding, powerful China. They put themselves on that path by producing cheap s*** that we want to buy.

    Nevertheless, like a growing adolescent they need to be kept in check.
     
  18. Darth Gravus

    Darth Gravus Banned

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    Screwing up the withdrawal, which Biden did do, is not the same as "we will nto fight for our allies if need be" and it never will be no matter how many times you spin it around
     
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  19. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    Oh, there is certainly plenty of superficial stuff to go around, but I don't see it as fundamental to the US/Australia bit.

    Boris is keen to assert the global reach of a post-EU Britain, so he'll be loving the optics of this. The fact he is willing to make Britain an even bigger target for China indicates some degree of committment...to the extent that Boris can manage such a thing. I'm not really sure what the UK component of this will look like beyond a few boffins wandering about giving advice, but it doesn't really matter.

    Morrison is keen for the distraction from his inability to Prime Minister anything more complex than breaking COVID rules to see Jenandthegirls. He gets to look all 'international statesman' for a few days. He also potentially wedges the ALP to its left (the Greens will be apolplectic) while appealing to the right of his own party and the Nats by dangling the possibility of a nuclear power industry. However, there is substance here. The whole subs thing has been a giant Charlie Foxtrot, as our US military friend say. This offers a potential fix, and if it goes wrong Scotty will be long gone anyway. It also strengthens out major strategic relationship, which is a positive.

    I don't really see much political gain in this for Biden, but it is part of a wider suite of measures he has been taking almost since day one to shore up the US position in Asia. It comes just before the Quad meet in the US, so it shows he is serious about this region & China. That won't win him votes, but it will please regional leaders here. They are hoping the days of erratic Trumpian unilateralism are past.
     
  20. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    OK .. I feel dumb .. correction noted.
     
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  21. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    No worries. Actually admitting you were wrong puts you ahead of a few folk on this thread.

    Nuclear powered subs will be controversial here. Nuclear armed subs would be unthinkable without an unrecognizably different strategic environment. I'm fine with that. :)
     
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  22. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    Since you're on an electronic device, YOU DID! Congrats.
     
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  23. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Withdrawl is done .. we have a new islamic state - .. all in all - # of soldiers killed this year was one of the lowest - as per chart posted previously.
     
  24. Darth Gravus

    Darth Gravus Banned

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    We were going to have a new Islamic state no matter when we left. We gave that country 20 years, more than 2400 dead Americans and more than 22,000 wounded Americans along with more than a trillion ****ing dollars. And the end result was always going to be this.

    The number of soldiers killed this year was because Trump made a deal with the Taliban that if they quit killing our troops we would leave their country and help them gain international recognition as a legit government.
     
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  25. James California

    James California Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    ~ Australia , England and the EU are in with China & the push for globalization . Everything is all a Sh:toilet:T show for the benefit of the ignorant. Don't be surprised when the CCP falls apart. The real boss from the beginning is the U.N. Ping is just another " useful idiot" like Biden, Harris, Morrison & Boris. USA will be the last to surrender. :no:

    " The fickle finger of freedom will be faked , fornicated and fanipulated until each individual `F's ´ themselves into a splendid slumber of stupification . "
     

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