Bernie Sanders is NOT extreme.

Something has been bugging me, mainly the fact that some Americans believe Bernie Sanders' policy positions are extreme. I will give you 3 quick reasons why they are not...

1. Bernie is a capitalist who believes in a strong safety net. He does not want the government to control means of production, he wants the economy to be more democratic and work for more people. He will leave capitalists in charge of the economy, but with rules. There will be no "central planning" of the economy under Bernie Sanders.

2. His policy proposals (universal health care, free tuition for public colleges, expansion of voting rights, wall street trading tax, larger income tax for the wealthy, etc.) are already in place in numerous countries that score higher than us in said categories. Namely Denmark, Germany, Sweden, New Zealand, UK, etc. They have done it, we lag behind. Aren't we supposed to be #1?

3. Many of his policy proposals have been done.....in the USA! Go back to the 1930s, 40s, 50s, and 60s. The tax rates for the top earners were MUCH higher, 70-90% up to 150k and over. The government was involved in planning the suburbs in which many of us live today (Levittown, NY, Hazlet, NJ are examples). Union membership was at an all time high. This was certainly the era of "big government", and the middle class thrived during these years. Again, this already happened in OUR country.

You, of course, do not have to agree with Bernie or like his policy ideas. But please, do not refer to him as an extremist. He is NOT extreme at all. In fact, among most of the industrialized world, he would be considered quite moderate.

Thanks!

 

im supporting trump but my second choice is bernie. I have 2 issues i hope bernie supporters can answer

1. how will you keep the companies from inverting or the rich from giving up their citizenship both of which have happened in the past.

2. Lets say everything goes well. Universal healthcare, jobs and 15$ minimum wages for everyone. This makes us an even more attractive destination for illegal immigration. Does bernie acknowledge this or does the plan provide for universal healthcare, college, and high wages for everyone in South america who wants to come? because i think his plans only calculate taxes for people already here.

 

Bernie hasn't thought any of these ideas out.

 

I am hoping it's Bernie v Trump in the general! Two populist candidates, buck the establishment!

I would like him to answer your second question as well. The first, I don't believe there was ever a mass exodus of wealthy people from the US, even when taxes were very very high. I can say that many European countries that have good economies keep corporate taxes very low so as not to discourage business, but keep the income taxes much higher to make up for it. Corporations outsource labor and manufacturing to developing countries (which needs to stop), I doubt they would ever give up their western citizenship. They love their luxury condos in NYC and LA haha.

 

He's not a capitalist, he's a socialist. He believes in socialism. If he had his way, the Government would own the means of production. He's just advocating for as much as he can politically get away with at this time, because he knows that the majority of the country does not want a centrally planned economy at this time. He will push as much central planning through as possible, however, evidenced by his support for single payer healthcare, free college tuition, and others.

You mean countries that have way more debt as a percentage of GDP, higher unemployment, lower GDP per capita, etc? It's funny how your cherry picked list leaves out Greece, Italy, France, Ireland, and other countries that have done what you are advocating, with disastrous results. I guess you just plan to ignore those because they don't conform with your agenda, eh?

This is such a stupid argument and it's repeated ad nauseum by every left-winger on the board, and they all believe they are dropping a bombshell of wisdom on us dumb conservatives. Seriously, it's a joke. Back in the 30's-60's we did not have a globalized world. The US was really the only place in the world where a thriving economy could take place, as the rest of the world was either rebuilding from the war or still developing. Very high tax rates were possible then because rich people couldn't just pick up and leave to another country, keeping their businesses operating no matter where they were. As the rest of the world has caught up and has given people options on where to live and work, tax rates have come down, due to market forces. Many on the left do not believe in market forces, but they exist according to every credible economist out there. One only has to look at France's recent failed experiment with 75% tax rates to see what a bad idea it was. The country lost billions in tax revenue as businesses and those with means moved to less oppressive areas. Even liberal Johnny Depp left the country. France was forced to reverse this policy not long after it was enacted and, surprise surprise, nobody on the left wants to talk about it. When reality disagrees with leftism, it's simply ignored. That's how they roll. You try 70-90% tax rates here in the US and see what happens.

That's not really saying much. Much of the industrialized world is a Marxist mess, thanks to policies that you are in support of.

 

he wants to release 600,000 prisoners onto our streets.

that's not extreme, its insane.

 

Non violent drug offenses mostly. They should be released immediately.

 

No, he is not a socialist, he is a capitalist who believes in what I said. He does not advocate for the government to control means of production, anyone who says that is lying to you, or to themselves. Yes, many countries are having problems, but not the countries I listed. Why is that? Because they have done things correctly, and in the case of Germany, is the strongest economy in Europe. We can provide for our people, and be a powerful economy, it's not a false choice.

Again, rich people will not, and have not left the west before. In order to do this, they would have to give up the massive benefits they gain by living here. It's a scare tactic used by people who want to continue abusing labor, and the middle and working class. Tax rates have come down because of aggressive lobbying and an anti union push since the 70s. If it were market forces, the middle class would never have become what it was under those policies. I can't speak for France, but they have similar tax rates in Scandinavia and Germany and they are economic powerhouses.

Most of the world is not marxist, this is an ignorant statement.

 

He identifies as a socialist. Maybe hes just a senile old Jew? Maybe we should make him president of the retirement home he moves into.

 

Democratic socialist = social democrat. You mean like Reagan?

 

He considers himself a socialist, not a capitalist. Is he lying or is he just ignorant (or stupid)?

That's really hilarious how you are arguing that rich people have not left the West, after I just gave you a concrete example of people doing just that. If that wasn't happening, explain all the jobs that have gone from this country to Asia, Mexico, India, and elsewhere? Clearly rich people, and their businesses, are seeing economic benefits to setting up shop somewhere else, and what do you advocate for in response? Make the US even less competitive with those countries. Brilliant.

The way I see it, job loss is the consequence of a generation of liberals believing in the left-wing manifesto known as John Lennon's "Imagine". Imagine no possessions, imagine no countries. That's what we are getting.

 

Bernie Sanders identifies as a Socialist. But his supporter over here claims he knows better what Bernie believes than Bernie himself.

Its like when your parents get all old and senile, and start asking you for things that you KNOW they told you when they were younger they would NEVER support.

Thats you. You are Bernie's child telling him whats going on.

 

Sanders is a raving Socialist kook!

He wants to free 1/2 the US prisoners, most of whom are Black and Hispanic from violent drug gangs---just to win more votes from scumbags.

He has no way to pay for all the free things he wants to redistribute to the underclass---as we have no way to pay our current debt.

Bernie, will cause what few manufacturing jobs in the US to flee overseas, as Sanders and wants ever more restictions, taxes, lawsuits and profits.

Sander's goal is revolution. The goal of socialism IS communism.

 

So, you are not being a very good advocate for Bernie,Bernie himself says he is a socialist--Not a Democratic socialist,but just a socialist----
Do you not think the people on this Forum listen to what Bernie himself says----tsk -tsk
Hey, keep it honest folks!----

 

When left-wingers try and reassure everyone else that their socialist goals and candidates are not to be feared, and that everything is going to be alright, I'm reminded of when the 9/11 hijackers told the passengers in those planes that they were turning the planes around and going back to the airport. Certain things go more smoothly when the population is lulled into a false sense of security.

 

every time I see someone bring up foreign countries that are "better" than us, and offer "more" than us... I am reminded of my travels often through those same countries, and spending years sitting down with locals and finding out what its like to live the ways they do, their culture, their government, just general daily life... and you know one thing that I constantly come across time after time after time... they make FAR less per hour than americans do in the same industries... which is why they get "more"...

for example, when you compare say a nurse in pick any of your countries listed... and then compare that to the salary of an american nurse... once we do the currency exchange, american nurses make far more money than they do... thats the only reason why they can afford to offer "universal healthcare"... then you dig deeper and see how much doctors in those countries make, and once again you realize the same scenario is playing out, and their doctors make far less than american doctors... next we look at all the administration for them, and once again we find americans make far more than their counterparts in the "shining examples of it working"...

the only reason many of these things work in these foreign countries is because people in america would NEVER take a 25% pay cut to be on par with their european counterparts of excellence... hence why they spend less per child to educate, spend less on healthcare per patient, spend less on just about every level of government... because americans make far more per hour once we adjust currencies... why does nobody ever bring up that critical and relevant fact to the discussion?

is it because suddenly they wouldn't be able to say "lets do what they do because it clearly works (whisper: at least until we apply the math)"...

so do americans want all those things, if so, will americans accept a 25% pay cut in those industries???

will those in the industries accept that in order to help all americans? or let me guess, they don't want the pay cut but still want all the benefits????

http://www.worldsalaries.org/professionalnurse.shtml

P.S. almost forgot to include that link above, thumb through it, see just how dramatic the pay difference is in america, thats why they spend so much less and it works...

P.S.S. also make certain to notice how much less hours americans work also compared to many european examples... we work less for more in these industries... will americans take a 25% paycut and work more hours???

http://www.worldsalaries.org/dentist.shtml

P.S.S.S. a dentist in america would have to take a 50% paycut to be on par with many european countries... imagine that, excessive labor costs being the fumble of america... this is why we can't clone european healthcare or education, because the employees in those industries would never take a 25% paycut little alone 50%...

 

Shocker, a hyper partisan saying that his idea is the only one that matters.

Fiscally he extremely extreme (see wut I did thur?) to me.

 

The right wing has advocated and rigged the system to proliferate greed. Having to explain that to someone is a waste of time since they most likely have the greed disease themselves...and much like drug abusers and alcoholics, they are in denial. The right wing political machine caters to those with the greed disease via propaganda and just plain out and out lies and the greed disease bunch actually thrives on lies. Showing them proof and evidence thru examples and stats only has them digging their heels in even further into the sociopathic, "(*)(*)(*)(*) you and yours because I got mine" mode. There is also the percentage of the right wing base that is just too ignorant, stupid, uneducated or all of the above to get that they are voting against their own best interests. Either way, I think it is high time for the red states and blue states to call it a day and go their separate ways...if only man...if only.

 

Name a single country that doesn't operate on greed.

But I agree with you. No way to run a country with half the people thinking like you do, and half like I do.

 

All it takes to get back to 90% tax rates is WWIII in which every other country's industries are literally bombed into oblivion and the USA untouched. The 90% was to force people to buy war bonds, which had to be repaid with interest so it was only temporary income for the government that had to be 100% repaid AND with interests.

So... what is Bernie's WWIII plan for which every other country's industries are destroyed and the USA untouched?

High tax rates are to cause people to buy bonds - which add to the debt plus then the interest payments.

The European countries you speak of do not have millions and millions of illegal migrants on welfare and having gobs of children on welfare and draining local and school expenses as well. Yet Bernie is going to keep them all. meaning then no relevancy to those countries which until the "refugee" invasion severely restricted immigration requiring proof of financial capability and a numerical limit on how many.

Sanders is relying upon people being REALLY naive - like in your message.

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Democratic states would collapse for lack of industry and income, with Detroit being the model. Detroit should be called "Bernie Land."

 

Exactly!!! Sanders is no 'extremist'. And those who are overly fearful that the word "socialist" is applied to his poltical views... really need to look at America's history and the meaning of "democratic socialism".

Folks, Sanders is a GREAT candidate... and in my view, ANY of the Democrats and their agendas, are better for the working middle class, than what the Republicans are up to. Don't believe me... just look up what they've said, and more importantly... what they (Republicans) have done.

 

Sanders is as far left as Jeb is far right. All the other Repub candidates are farther out there than Jeb.

 

well we have situations now where our very corporate friendly laws are not enough and inversions are happening. The rich may not leave but they can certainly park their money outside or earn money there. I mean you can use money market accounts or other stuff abroad right?

on question # 2 i think your beloved sanders will end up like trump.

 

So they become legal residents of a country with low personal income taxes and get paid there.

 

"Extreme" is a subjective term and based upon the perspective of the person stating it. The USA has been consistently moving toward the left since President Johnson to the point where even President Kennedy wouldn't even recognize the democrat party today. He would likely fit better in the republican party today.

Steve