Bible "contradictions" for Christians part 1 - Eternal Life

The day of Pentecost happened. It was then that the holy spirit was made available to all.

1 Corinthians 2:7 ff
7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

His coming (both the first and second) was not a mystery. What was is that the Gentiles and Jews would be of one Body of Christ. Having the full power of Christ for it would be Christ in (Christ - i a n) them.

 

No, not indoctrination. I actually know two people with total recall, my Brother and a Foreman I worked under. The Apostles weren't just any people. They were chosen by God and set apart for their mission. One would assume they were also blessed by God to that end. So along with the holy spirit, recalling words of life fifty years later would have been reasonable to do. It is like language, riding a bike, or building a house.

 

By contrastto eidetic memory mainly in children , photographic memory may be defined as the ability to recall pages of text, numbers, or similar, in great detail, without the visualization that comes with eidetic memory.] It may be described as the ability to briefly look at a page of information and then recite it perfectly from memory. This type of ability has never been proven to exist.

 

Jesus the Jewish preacher only knew what the scriptures said. Period. He had been taught the Tanakh in the local synagogue school from the age of 5 through to 13. Anything further was added by the Gospel writers. Pauls vision was like that of Mohammeds, Joseph Smith etc. All with a different interpretation
There's no evidence apart from a book, that Jesus was anything but a Jewish preacher. And a study of that book shows he was not the Babe of Bethlehem.

 

Well, the gospel testimonies are there. And Jesus was not a law unto himself as you suggest. But was the Jewish Messiah who preformed many miracles, was transfigured on the mountain, spoke with angels and with God in heaven according to the testimonies of his Apostles who were there. So he was not a law or man unto himself. Though there is no more proof of this than that their having eaten should be to our nourishment. Yet this day I know of myself by his spirit that God is real, that he lives and is divine. And I know by recognizing and remembering his spirit when it came to my heart, mind, and soul. Though not by any power of my own, but by his charity. Of his increase, there is no end. I know no other way to convey the truth than to say it in my own language. You know God but have forgotten him according to the severity of the amnesia by which mankind is stricken. Not the God of men or religion. But the one true God. On top of that amnesia you have constructed a wall of disbelief for safety from the deceit of the multitude of religions and beliefs of men. And have made of yourself a prisoner of your own prudence so as not to be entrapped by lies. Ironically, you are nevertheless cut off and caged. I'm not a student of scripture or product of religion. Neither am I intellectually gifted or educated. I only know that God lives, and that true life is in his spirit rather than in myself or in my life alone.

 

Only if it is taken literally, and in fact, erroneously.

 

Much of that was merely self-defense, and as far as the Crusades go it was merely a re-conquest of former Christian lands from war mongering Muslim imperialism.

Christianity is still a Jewish sect. Christianity is in fact an older sect than modern Judaism's several cults. It more represents the original Hebrewism of Moses and the written Torah and the universalism implicit in monotheism than anything in Jewish sectarianism with the exception of Messianic Jews and Karaites.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karaite_Judaism

Karaite Judaism (/ˈkɛərə.aɪt/) or Karaism (/ˈkɛərə.ɪzəm/, sometimes spelt Karaitism (/ˈkɛərə.ɪtɪzəm/; Hebrew: יהדות קראית Yahadut Qara'it); also spelt Qaraite Judaism, Qaraism or Qaraitism)[a] is a Jewish religious movement characterized by the recognition of the written Tanakh alone as its supreme authority in halakha (Jewish religious law) and theology.[11] Karaites believe that all of the divine commandments which were handed down to Moses by God were recorded in the written Torah without any additional Oral Law or explanation. Unlike mainstream Rabbinic Judaism, which regards the Oral Torah, codified in the Talmud and subsequent works, as authoritative interpretations of the Torah, Karaite Jews do not treat the written collections of the oral tradition in the Midrash or the Talmud as binding.

Karaite interpretation of the Torah strives to adhere to the plain or most obvious meaning (peshat) of the text; this is not necessarily the literal meaning of the text—instead, it is the meaning of the text that would have been naturally understood by the ancient Hebrews when the books of the Torah were first written—without the use of the Oral Torah. By contrast, Rabbinic Judaism relies on the legal rulings of the Sanhedrin as they are codified in the Midrash, Talmud, and other sources to indicate the authentic meaning of the Torah. Karaite Judaism holds every interpretation of the Torah to the same scrutiny regardless of its source, and teaches that it is the personal responsibility of every individual Jew to study the Torah, and ultimately to decide personally its correct meaning. Karaites may consider arguments made in the Talmud and other works, but without exalting them above other viewpoints.

Much of post-Ezra 'Judaism' is just self-serving Babylonian racist nonsense, and not derivative of the written Torah. Babylonians made themselves into a 'Master Race' cult based on 'racial purity' laws that would make a Nazi jealous.

https://archive.org/details/jerusalemintimeo0000jere/page/n5/mode/2up


One of the reasons Jesus was so popular and thus the hatred the Temple scammers had for him is his rejection of the racist nonsense, a threat to their power and incomes from the great majority of 'impure' Jews, who made up almost 10% of the Roman Empire's population at the time. The 'racial purity' laws make up almost a third of the above book. A big chunk of the Orthodox and all of the ultra-Orthodox and Hasidic cultists still promote this ultra-racist nonsense, and consider Jews to be not just a master race but the only humans, period; the goyim are merely animals used by God to punish or reward Jews.


https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Sec...2013/1007/Rabbi-Ovadia-Yosef-in-his-own-words


For instance, in 2010 he said in a weekly Saturday night sermon that the sole purpose God put non-Jews on earth was to be servants to Jews.

"Goyim (gentiles, non-Jews) were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world – only to serve the People of Israel," he said, according to the Jerusalem Post. "Why are gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat. That is why gentiles were created." An "effendi" is a lord, or a master, in Arabic.


The death of this assclown was widely mourned in Israel.

 

Yeah the mans view is self centered and self important as if God himself exists only to serve him.

 

No.

"Keep the commandments" does not say "this will provide you with eternal life". It's like saying to junior "so you want to be able to drive the car? Then eat your spinach."

"Eternal life" is a free gift because in order to receive it you must surrender and let go of everything . . . . . . . EVERYTHING. It's free because you need not bring anything with you to the quest. In fact, if you bring anything it will evade you.

But no Christian understands this. They think it is a gift given to one by another who will "do something for you".

 

Whew! What a quagmire of assumptions!

 

I was quite clear with my Scripture quotes. Perhaps you're suffering from reading comprehension.

 

No. Not at all. But it's certain that you suffer from English Comp confusion and non-comprehension. You said "What was is that the Gentiles and Jews would be of one Body of Christ."
"What was is"??? Did you mean "what was it"? Let's try that....
"What was it that the Gentiles and Jews would be of one Body of Christ."
Nope. That's a "non-sense" so-called "sentence". Either way it isn't a sentence.

But let's talk about the bible and your 1st Corin 2:7 in particular. It speaks of a mystery but I've never heard any Christian or you discuss any mystery in the bible. No, they talk about how clear and factual the bible is as they read it like it is a reliable report of actual historical facts. Do you see the mystery in the bible that the verse refers to? I do. I know what that mystery is. It was revealed to me during deep meditation on the bible years ago.

The verse says "Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory." And that is absolutely true, and I understand why. There would have been nothing for which to crucify him! Do you understand the bible? I don't think so. And so I don't agree that you were "quite clear with [your] scripture quote" because you couldn't be if you don't understand the mystery which is referred to.

 

As I read it, had they loved God, they would not have rejected and put him to death.

 

Let's try this instead:

". . . was not a mystery. What was (referring to the mystery) is . . . ."

You are the one having trouble with reading comprehension.

 

But that's not what it says, even taken literally. In addition, you are saying "if they had loved God, they would not have rejected Jesus and put him to death." But instead it sounds like you're saying who/what they put to death was God. If so that is an impossible and completely worldly interpretation. But maybe it was just a wording problem for you.

 

...said by a person struggling with clear writing.

 

"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." Cor 2:9

 

Right. And unlike 99.99% of Christians, I know what those things are. I know what they are on an intellectual level, however, because I have knocked at the door and peered in, but I have not actually gone in because it wasn't given that I would.

 

There's no problem with how I wrote what I did relative to the "mystery" of God. One was not one, the other was. Simple to understand once you remove your head.

 

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There is a contradiction but don't think were stated well .. and there are two ... Paul's apparent "Free Pass" ideology contradicts himself and Jesus.

Paul states in Romans that at the end of days the secret thoughts of men will be judged .. first the Jew and then the Gentile .. but, if all have to go through Judgement .. this is not a "Free Pass" .. and no basis for claiming one is "Saved" - free pass through pearly gates into heaven and eternal life - if one has yet to be Judged.

Jesus gives an answer in your Matt Quote based on works.. no faith to be found. The problem is the ambiguity at the end .. from Jesus saying basically "If you want to be perfect sell all your stuff and follow me" -- some folks then claiming this is a requirement .. which is not the case .. the bar is not perfection. One does not need to be perfect to get into heaven .. forgiveness one of the main teachings of Jesus ..

In Matt 5 -7 Sermon on the Mount - Sermon on how to get through the pearly gates .. Jesus speaks of "Severity of Sin" .. putting the bar rather low .. one needs to be as pad as the Pharasee's and teachers of the Law .. whom Jesus hated . More clues given later in the sermon around the location of that bar.. Matt 7:12 --- Golden Rule - SUMS UP THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS .. put the cap button on for a reason .. what part of .. maybe Christians should pay attention .. is our Lord and Savior not making crystal clear .. LOOK HERE .. SEEK AND YOU MIGHT FIND .. but you need to seek in the first place ..

Shortly after and giving numerous examples of "The Rule that sums up the law and the prophets" - Rabbi Hillel .. teacher of Jesus put it this way "Don't do to others what you hate" .. the rest is all commentary.

Matt 7:21 -- Jesus now summarizing for the crowd .. telling them who gets in .. and who don't

"No all of the Tim Tebow quarterbacks of the world .. falling to knees after touchdown crying "Thank You Jesus .. Thank You Jesus" make it through the pearly Gates ya hear ..

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Only the one who does the will of the Father .. .. another one of those "LOOK HERE" moments -- cause if you don't have an answer for what "The Will of the Father" is ... I suggest one has not put much thought into one's faith

The contradiction is faith vs works .. either you have to go through Judgement or you do not. Jesus teaches its all about works .. works .. and more works .. this "Will of the Father" .. no mention of Faith being a requirement in this Sermon. Not even a question if this Sermon is all you have to go on .. and unfortunately for those that wish to argue otherwise .. sorry .. this sermon is all we are considering .. as this sermon is specifically about getting into heaven .. going into great detail.. not some one phrase line normally taken out of context ..

If you have to be worthy of something .. it is not a free gift CKW but, nor do you have to give all you have away .. you do not have to have led a perfect life to enter the Kingdom.. some things can be forgiven .. your mission .. should you choose to accept it .. to figure out what things can not be forgiven.

 

That appears to be a contradiction but it actually is not. I'll put this in the simplest terms I can and if someone requires bible evidence, I'll see what I can provide.

"Salvation", first of all, IS NOT something that one grants to the other. NO ONE, not Jesus, not a priest ..... NO ONE provides to the "believer", or the "sinner", or anyone else. That idea comes from a worldly, literal, carnal reading of the bible. It must be read spiritually, and then everything I say will be found as I and others have found it.

Bottom line: YOU ARE what you seek. But we are all dominated, blinded, and made delusional by this body with it's perceptions and concerns. So the first thing we need to do is to DROP everything we hold. We must struggle to overcome our own convictions and values. We must surrender ALL we think we are, all our desires, all our hopes, our dreams, fears, beliefs, expectations, intentions, preferences, knowledge, and all claims. This is "going into the wilderness" (Lev 16:10). It is "losing your life to save it" (Matt 16:25). It is "the circumcision of the heart" (what you love). This is Eph. 4:21, Romans 6:24, Gal 5:24, and 1st John 3:3.. This is done in meditation on the bible. No one says you must first learn to live in the world this way. No. You need to find it within for brief periods, and then allow them to grow.

This is the meaning of "sell all you have and follow me". It is the meaning of "you must leave your wife, family, father, mother, sister, and brother" (Matt 19:29). You don't physically leave them. What good would it possibly do you if you did leave them physically and never worked on letting go of all your concerns? And now you have added one more by physically leaving them! You will have to also overcome that particular guilt! So that is not the answer. Rather, it all happens within, where all your demons dwell.

When you have "overcome even as I have overcome" (Rev.) then you find the Kingdom within (Luke 17:21). You must be "a Jew within" (Romans 2:29). And that "kingdom" is what you find is left after you have completed the process of overcoming everything. It's already right there waiting. It is your Self. There is no cost. There is only preparation of dealing with what you believe you are and have. When you're prepared; when you have finally left all this world and all it has been to you behind; The only thing left is the Kingdom, and You are already there.

I know, I know. This is all "new age crap", right? No. Read St. John of the Cross. Read Meister Eckhart. Read Mme Jeanne Guyon. Read the bible with new eyes. It says "overcome the world". It says "For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it."

Thus, the seeming contradiction is resolved.

 

Absolutely there is a contradiction between the Jesus of your interpretation of John 3:16 and the Jesus of Matthew 5-7 .. Sermon on the mount and your get the passage you quote from Matt wrong .. Jesus says .. if you want to get into heaven .. keep the commands. full stop.

What part do you not understand up to this point in the story ? .. the man persists .. upon which Jesus tells him "If you want to be perfect .. sell all you have and follow me"

What Jesus is not saying .. is that you need to be perfect to get into heaven. .. is the same severity of sin idea discussed in the SOM -- which completely contradicts the "Free Pass" ideology you are trying to promote .. supplanting the doctrine of Idol Martin on Jesus .. usurping the position of the Logos.

The way for the words in John 3:16 to not be in contradiction with the SOM - (sermon in which Jesus explains how to get into heaven - "The will of the Father" Matt 7 ) is to take "whomever believes in my words" to mean whomever believes my words are true and acts upon them. .. That interpretation has no contradiction.

Your interpretation on the other hand is a complete contradiction with the SOM -- Matt 7

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’


24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

Jesus preaches works works .. and more works .. not a wit about some faith requirement in this entire sermon - as opposed to one cherry picked line poorly interpreted - in a Gospel written 60 years after the original version of the story.

Your interpretation of the words of Jesus in John is a major contradiction of the teachings of Jesus in the SOM. There is no free pass through Judgement .. .. something the majority of Christianity does not believe Catholic/Orthodox .. and something that some Protestant denominations are coming to grips with .. sans the fundamentalists who are completely lost on this one.

 

No contradiction at all.

 

There is no contradiction, and you'd know it if you read the whole chapter. Jesus illustrated to the young man that he can't save himself, and His disciples asked "who then can be saved" and He said “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Him and Paul are saying the same thing.