Breaking: Passenger plane shot down over Ukraine?

1. Boeing was not hit by a plane. If it was hit by a plane than th argument about max speed and top altitude would make some sense.
2. SU-25 was capable of firing several rockets and use a gunfire to finish the liner. That can be performed quite conviniently for the attack plane.
3. SU-27 fighter could be there as well. Russian MoD told of a plane which was seen by russian radars coming from low altitudes. Besides, there are videos in the Internet which have a interceptor's deployable aluminum pieces that are usd in order to prevent the radar of seeing the site.
4. The last and not the least. ukrainian BUKs with the help of their systems of radars had much better chances to do the job than a single rebels' launcher. Planes could hav stayed in the area in order to finish the plane if th attack is not successful.

 

LOL, now it is a whole dance of conspiracy to excuse the shoot down of the airliner when it is clear that it was shot down by mistake by the separatists.

 

How ya doin' Baghdad Bob?

 

Whom is it clear to? I already told that BUK is a system. It is not a fire and forget magic missile that hits any target as happens in Hollywood. In order to operate BUK needs:
1) A system of radars, which the rebels don't have. These systems has the Ukraine.
2) In order to come to a firing zone a launcher should have the order from a commander machine knowing the speed and the course of such a fast plane. Ukrainians knew that all and controlled the speed and the course of th liner by dispatchers.
3) It is just stupid to go on a mission with a single launcher not having the reloading machine, which rebels never had. Ukrainians did.

So it is pure conspiracy to think that rebels went to th field with a singly launcher, set it for firing in a randomly chosen position, located a high and fast aim and shot it (instead of shooting to a lower and more dangerous for them SU-25!!!). Ukraine had 150% warranty that a linr will hav no chance to survive. And the guys who had taken this decision knew that their dummies will never be able not to believe any crap from the media. Where do you see any conspiracy? It is realpolitiks, man!

 

You seem to be unaware that Russia is providing weapons, tanks, etc., along with advisers.

 

Pffff. Do you understand that no tank or adviser would be able to substitute a radar? The rebels have taken the armors that date back to the times of WW2. Besides, thy have some ukrainian modifications, which Russia has never had. The only thing that all the sides of conflict have and what is possible to be sent from Russia is GRAD artillery. But it has NOTHING to do with the plane MH-17 except for one thing

Westerners are trained by the media to see a problem in russians. If russians want to speak russian - it is a problem. They should refuse. If russians want to live - it is a problem. They should die. Etc. This is the only thing which makes any sense in your comment about instructors and armors regarding my posts about the plane.

 

No, Russians wanting to take other countries over is a problem.

 

Russians just want to live. There was a time when Russia was big. At that time we recognised the right of other nations to take the land of Russia and to create their own state. It was fine. But if the russians don't have just the same right which was used to make up the states you are 'protecting' then they all kinda need to hand in their territories and go to US or something.

If one human has a right for something then all the people have this right. Ukraine had a chance to build a federate democratic state which is better for russians to live than Russia itself. Why don't thy just give human rights to the people?! The state which refuses people of basic rights has no worthiness to exist.

 

Terrorism is always rationalized by the terrorists.

 

When you lose a war you give up certain things, and Russia lost the cold war. Russia had to give up many of it's satellite countries to include Ukraine. Ukraine does not want to rejoin Russia nor do any of the other countries that was once controlled by Russia. They've had a taste of independence and do not want to return to the iron curtain rule. Get over it.

 

Fine. But we actually think that russians are establishing democracy and return to a civilised development way. Since that was all just a war - it's good that you mentioned. USSR under Gorbachev and Yeltsin already gave to NATO and EU all the eastern europe and all the markets of USSR. The desire to get the russians off their land is new.
And this is new war. Maybe this time you will at least have the dignity to declare it. At least I hope you will not cry "WHY?" looking at the beautiful picture of nuclear warheads together with dozens of false heads approaching the sufrface of your cities. I hope you will remember this bargain about our lives and understand why it happened.

We are actually quite fine with an independent Ukraine. We are fine if Ukraine makes its choice on referendums as a nation. But this is just a slaughter and enslaving, which russians will never tolerate. You have to accept it.

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No. In this case western countries don't even make an attempt to rationalise their state terrorism.

 

Yes, it is. Why in the U.S. - a federation in Russia - a federation in Switzerland and the UK - Confederation and Ukrainian Nazis want as Nazi Germany during Hitler? Why Ukraine built concentration camps like Auschwitz and Buchenwald? This - the fact they want to go there to collect all of the Russian eastern and southern regions!

 

LOL, sure.

 

My understanding is Russian's in Ukraine want closer ties to Russia. Basically a step towards Russia regaining control of Ukraine. Ukrainians and not Russians should decide who Ukraine get's closer to. If Russians don't like that they can get the hell out of Ukraine and go back to Russia. The world knows how badly Putin wants to own Ukraine again. And nukes coming our way would only lead to nukes going your way. A no win situation for either side. Only Russia has the power to stop this nonsense in Ukraine. Get the hell out of there!

 

A pro-Russian separatist fighting in eastern Ukraine has admitted rebel forces shot down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, it has been claimed.

The militant, who has not been identified, reportedly said fighters blasted the Boeing 777 out of the sky - killing all 298 people on board - after mistaking it for a Ukrainian government cargo plane.

He said the rebels only realised their mistake when they began searching the crash site for the parachutes of military crew who may have bailed out the aircraft, only to find the bodies of children.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ed-mistake-came-bodies-children-not-military-

 

That's a very simplified picture.

Strange thing. SHould a child decide if it loves mother or dad more? There should be no decision "either or" it is quite possible to live together as it used to be for about thousand years. And yes. Russians cannot go BACK. The land they live is the land where they were born and belong to.

Putin doesn't want to be responsible of what is left of Ukraine. It is a dead zone now.

It is an already no win situation for us here. So we have nothing to lose.

Russians have no control of Poroshenko and fascists. US does. If US orders to stop the bloodshed and to start negotiations it would happen the next day. EU can push the fascists out of Kiev. They just need to tell that they will accept only a thriving and peacefull Ukraine, but they don't have any inclanation to help ukrainian fascists in their genocide against russians. Then peace would restore there within a month once deceived people get all the killers into jail.

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Now this is a lie. Which was repeated for I don't know how long.

 

You have proof it is false or is that just wishful thinking?

 

Exclusive: Ukraine rebel commander acknowledges fighters had BUK missile

 

It's fairly obvious, that is exactly how it went down. At least one decent man admitted to the error...the rest of the vodka swillers do not care if innocents were killed the chief concern is covering it up to protect Putin's regime.

Look at the pro-Kremlin crowd in here...do you think there is one consolable post for the dead? Not one....not one single post.

Their primary mission, really their only mission, is to protect Putin's regime.

The dead are merely an afterthought, the bereaved are of no concern.

This was an accident, a tragic mistake, I believe that..however these low-life Slavic (*)(*)(*)(*)s...and pardon my language, but I'm steamed, they will not own up to this. They won't apologize to the loved ones of those onboard the airliner. Nope...complete denial, double down on the lies, this is what they do. They won't provide the bereaved any sort of consolation. We are sorry...nothing. Just spin it, keep spinning it until you convince the World it was the airliner's fault for being in the wrong airspace, they deserved to get shot down.

 

In a telephone conversation with OBAMA POROSHENKO recognizes that BOEING knocked UKRAINIAN defense, "And to achieve SU-25" ... Thursday, July 24, 2014 8:14

Last night one of the staff department of government of Ukraine for $ 1 million sold correspondent of one of Germany informagenstv record a telephone conversation between U.S. and Ukraine, held on 22 July 18-53 -19-12 European time. The recording was transferred to Berlin, on the content of it was immediately informed Merkel. She ordered "under any conditions, the content of this talk in the media not to disclose." However, one officer of the German secret services (presumably working on Poland) managed to pass the transcript of the conversation Poroshenko-Obama in Warsaw, where it feeds through undercover and became known to Russian intelligence. Transcript of a very long, because cite only one of the fragments:

"Poroshenko: - Barack, I am surprised and upset your inconsistency in reporting the causes of the destruction of the Boeing ... That you point out a separatist by then to Moscow, then suddenly declare that the evidence of her involvement in this case is not ... We're with outset agreed to stick to one position ... But if you continue to make such statements, it will be difficult to resist the Moscow ...
Obama: - Easy, Peter. You apparently misunderstood the nature of our applications ... We say "unavailable" ... But a lot of work on it ... But now you have to work a lot more to ... to ... to ... all it looked plausible as possible ... You made ​​a big mistake by sending this very ... Russian warplane ... got him ... and now you, and we will be very difficult obyasnit world ... why this was necessary. ..
Poroshenko: - We did not have confidence that the ground we will succeed ... I had to check ... and err ...
Obama - I know, I know ... But it's not included in our understanding of the pattern of events ... And now at the hands of Russian have another trump card ...
Poroshenko: - As it happened, how it happened ...
Obama: - Peter, you see, what happened is bad ... It's ... I mean that your plane that flew after us ... This adds a lot of trouble ...
Poroshenko: - We both denied everything, and will deny ... The main thing to you, it has not tripped up by these strange statements about his innocence Russian ... You and I should not diverge in this ... Otherwise it will be difficult ...
Obama: - We will support you in everything ... We are sailing in the same boat ... Do not hesitate ... Although you have completed our overall plan procrastination ... It had to happen a little earlier ...
Poroshenko: - But you are well aware of the level of training of our specialists ...
Obama - I am concerned that some of these most experts do not spill the beans ... Russian probably already hunting them ... Try to save those of his people ... If they open your mouth ...
Poroshenko: - I understand ... We will make sure that they never open my mouth ...
Obama: - You need to tightly control all svidelstvo and witnesses ... It can ruin our whole party ...
Poroshenko: - And what's with the black boxes? ... I sent to England to their experts ... they worked in contact with the British ... But Russian also require access to these tape recorders or whatever ... This is very dangerous and for us, for you ... Russian and close there should not be ... Otherwise ...
Obama - I have already spoken on this matter with Cameron ... Everything will be okay ... His people will do anything wrong "...

(Excerpt from the transcript of that conversation Poroshenko Obama and I intend today to pass agency Reuters.)

 

First, if this is true it would be in English and not badly translated Russian. Second, the propaganda from Russia is strong and thick. You have a link?

 

Russia isn't Ukraine's mommy or daddy. Ukraine is all grown up now and claimed it's independence from Russia. So let it go! Maybe Ukraine's do feel they have a lot to lose and don't want to be dragged down by that defeatist attitude. Put your big boy pants on and get the hell out of Ukraine! You're not wanted there.

 

This translated Google. I do not speak good English and Russian.

 

Then, the only proof would be the recording itself, otherwise it is useless.