Comparing the college scene, May 1970 with April 2024.

To refresh the old guy’s memories and to acquaint those who were born after 1960, in May of 1970 Richard Nixon ordered an invasion of Cambodia. His strategy was to root out staging and hiding areas which the North Vietnamese were using to attack the Americans and “Arvin” (South Vietnamese Army) in the South.

The American colleges exploded. There were massive student demonstrations and many calls “to shut down the universities to open them up to the community.” The University of Delaware, where I was a Junior at the time, closed down for a couple of days. Naturally students who supported the war were angry that they were losing the class time, for which they had paid tuition. There were a fair number of comparisons that could be made to the current demonstrations.

What were the differences?

· Vietnam was a civil war between the North and the South. To the people in Vietnam, it probably seemed like the west was trying to continue the colonization which had existed since the 19th century.

· For the U.S. officials, it was one more phase in the strategy to contain communism. Many believed in “the domino theory” that the fall of the Vietnam would lead to the fall of the rest of Southeast Asia to communism.

· Many college men were of draft age and did not want to be pulled in the conflict.

· Some believed, including a college professor who had considerable influence over me, that Vietnam was the wrong place to draw the line. The important are was Western Europe.

· The hardcore leftist students endorsed the North Vietnamese and supported the spread of Maoist communism. Many of them supported the Russian Communists, but them to be a bit “stodgy.” They also the communist Cuban Revolution.

What about today?

· The Israel – Hamas situation is a sort of civil war. The Palestinians did elect the Hamas Government, whose policy has been to arm for a conflict with Israel. The goal is to end the Jewish state. Hamas as spent much of the humanitarian funds they have received to fortify Gaza.

· The most idealist of students support the Palestinian civilians and hate the fact that they are caught in the middle of the Israeli response to the massacres of October 7. This is the basis for their call for a ceasefire.

· The radicals are calling for the Palestinians to put an end the State of Israel and push them from “The river to the sea.” They support Hamas and deny that the events of October 7 happened and state that those actions were justified.

· There are calls for “ the two state solution” where Israel gives up territory to create a Palestinian homeland carved out of Israeli territory. For the record, this has been tried, but radicals within the Palestinian movement have long held that the only solution is “river to the sea.” They have sabotaged whatever “two state solutions” which might have been possible.

Care to comment?

 

Nothing new under the Sun. The radical left-wing students are always going to support the Communist and the Muslims.

 

Nothing new under the Sun. The radical left-wing students will always oppose US participating in slaughtering innocent people. And the extreme right will always cheer for politicians who support genocide. The only difference is that today they also cheer for the former President who steals, rapes and tortures.

 

The propagandists will always play for sympathy, claiming the war mongers are murdering innocent women and children.

It is never true that the war mongers seek women and children to murder.

The three exceptions to this are the Japanese in WWII, the Russians in WWII and HAMAS.

 

We're not the ones that spit on soldiers returning home and we're also not the one supporting proxy wars around the world right now.

So once again the things that you say and reality are two different things

 

The rioting students know little of history. When questioned they can't defend their position. The radical Muslim groups pay for the riots and influence the students. You never see the students demand Hamas release the hostages they kidnapped when they attacked Israel.

 

I, who support current IDF operation in Gaza, is disappointed by the protest in college campuses. But as an American , I am proud that in American a group of students can protest for what they believe. They are misguided for sure, but they have the right to protest.

What I find most interesting are the adults on both sides of the political spectrum.

Conservatives, like this thread itself calling these students lefty /liberal/communist lover and brainwashed. Blame the education system, blame the liberalism, blame the 60s movement, blame everything which are not conservatism. For crying out loud, these are kids between 17-21. 90% of them are there not because they really care about Gaza, they are there because they were told “ they can’t protest”. They are protesting because their friends are there. They are protesting because hanging out with friends and camping out is fun. Yea, for a middle-aged man like me, it sound stupid but when I was 19, I know how I used to think.

And for my liberal friend- I understand free speech, but chanting “ river to sea” is not free speech. It is calling for destruction of Israel. That is not acceptable under any situation. Just like 10 white guys standing and chanting “Heil Hitler" and saluting is not acceptable in modern society, neither is “ river to sea”.

Another 3 weeks, and this will be over. Kids are going back home and they will worry about their ex-Bf or ex-gf then Gaza and Israel and genocide. This might sound sad and silly , but they are 19. Their attention span is limited.

 

That's because the thought of Jewish hostages excites them.
SICK!!!

 

It's odd that people would call for the destruction of Israel by saying they want peaceful coexistence. So, in your scenario, when they say "stop the slaughter of Palestinians!" do they mean "kill them all!"? Or please explain how it works when protesters say one thing and, according to you, they expect that to accomplish the opposite?

 

What is sick is to even consider it a possibility that the thought of any type of hostages would excite ANYBODY!

But your statement is something one might expect from somebody who could be... maybe not "excited" (I can't imagine that anybody could be "excited" about things like these), but tolerates a former President who tortured children and now wants to elect him again.

 

There is one noteworthy similarity. I remember seeing people in protests in the 70s carrying Vietcong and Soviet flags. They undermined the whole movement, which was one for peace. Antisemites have likewise infiltrated the protests today. Antisemitism is an extremist right-wing philosophy characteristic of groups like the KKK and the Proud Boys. By infiltrating the movement for peace in Gaza, they achieve two objectives: they express their white supremacist sentiments, and they undermine the calls for peace.

 

Demonstrations are fine if peaceful, don't litter, don't block other's ability to move about freely, and don't try to shut down the university. None of the above is what I'm seeing. We need to watch both NBC (liberal) and Fox News (conservative) to get the full picture of the demonstrations in action. A smart person who is objective will watch both.

 

I dare say that a goodly number of the protesters are not college students. They are organizers who are there to stir up trouble. Part of the Columbia University negotiations have been been to get these people, who don't belong there off campus.

There are other chants that are not acceptable. "Gas the Jews" and "I am Hamas, pig!" are a couple of them.

I understand the concern about innocent citizens of Gaza, but if they are Hamas supporters, they are reaping what they have sown. If these kids are supporting Hamas, they are either bad people or very poorly informed. You don't support an organization that is really the same as the German Nazis. Hamas is still holding hostages, including women and young children. The demonstrators don't seem to care about them.

 

You are right, many protester say “ stop the slaughter of Palestine’ or “ bring peace to ME” or chant two state solution. I have no problem with that. I admire those.

But same time many chant “ river to sea”, many yell at Jewish student and say “ go back to Israel”. Do you condemn those?

 

My two cents. Like many of you I support free speech when its peaceful.

In my subjective opinion I would argue most of the people at the anti Israel rallies now have no clue about Jewish or Muslim history let alone who Hamas is and what they stand for. We live with a new generation who get all their info from 10 second sound bites on their cell phone and follow each other like sheep and do not and can not see two or multiple sides of an issue.

That very much is the result of lack of critical analysis and having been (retired now) a professor part-time for 30 years I watched as info technology changed and ushered in a growing evolution of dumbing down and illiteracy as cell phones so easily took over controlling people.

I directly point to the cell phone and how no student can go a minute without one. I would not allow them in my lectures and I forced students to challenge me in debate. I used to get lively discussions and my job was to show students there are more than one opinion to a conflict and the key to critical analysis was looking for an infinite number of solutions synthesizing the opposite extremes of argument.

I have been subject to blatant anti-semitism from a Muslim campus director and students but I really did not care. Life is too short. They represent only themselves. I have also taught some very kind and respectful Muslims who like me just want a peaceful solution where everyone has a peaceful state side by side.

I myself find the extremism and simplicity of idiocy today that comes out of the mouth of the next generation depressing in the sense I realize such people are 100% dependent on being told what to think by their cell phone.

However then I say that is my subjective stereotype because there are also good people out there you just do not see them at these rallies and they hold the future and they can and do see both/multiple sides of arguments. So I believe they are the silent majority and what you see at campuses are actually a minority some of whom are manipulated, some of who are misguided and some who are just typical of that stage of life where they have not had that much life experience and so they see things in black and white ivory tower simplistic theories.

I myself got caught up in left wing sentiment but it did not last long as it was full of bigots who for m e were worse than the alleged tyranny we were criticizing. I myself got turned around pretty good by a gfew holocaust survivors, some refugees from Hungary, Iran refugees to Canada, Czech refugees, and having lived and witnessed terrorism. I hate to say it but unless you remove certain people from their privileged Western bubbles in the US they will never understand why Hamas would turn on them faster than me a Jew.

 

I agree with you. Many people taking advantage of these college campus protest. Ther are outside influence along with many faculty members. And yes, these faculty members are f**ing liberal professor with terrorist sympathizer with no f88ing idea about ME. They had few drinks with some so called “ moderate Muslim” and read few books and they think they know everything about ME.

But my point is majority students are just being kids. They saw a tiktok post, so they show up at the protest after the sunset. Adult saying you can’t protest so they protest. They are just being kids. In two weeks they will go home and you will not hear from them until semester resume.

What is truly shocking to me, most likely I never noticed this before. African -American community support for Palestinian. somehow they convinced themselves Israelis are oppressor and Palestinians are victim.

 

As I said before, "river to the sea" is a slogan that the OLP used decades before Hamas existed. And the OLP is the organization recognized by the UN. And they are seeking a two-state solution.

So, I ask again: HOW does it work if you claim that they mean something other than what the OLP defends when they are SAYING that's what they pursue. How do you call for "obliterating Israel" (like some have claimed) by saying "don't obliterate Israel"? I'm serious... how would that work?

As for "go back to Israel", I already mentioned in another post that I remember in the 1970s a handful among the protesters who brought Vietcong and Soviet flags. They did NOT represent the peace movement. Sounds to me like those you mention represent antisemite groups like the KKK and the Proud Boys and other MAGA groups. I most definitely condemn those.

 

So you don’t condemn anything.

That’s the f**ing problem with latte liberals. They think kissing Muslim a$$ is one of the qualification to be liberal.

 

Read again!

And, for heaven's sake, I have answered ALL your question. You could at least have the courtesy of answering mine. I have asked it TWICE!

If you don't have an answer (and it's becoming clearer that you don't), just say so. You don't have to know all the answers. But you SHOULD suspend judgement until you do.

 

Anyone here support the demonstrators shouting, "Death to Israel" and "Death to America"?

 

The most recent sign that takes the cake is, “The Final Solution.” The idiot who wrote that is a true Nazi or has zero knowledge of Hitler and history.

 

I read your comment and again you seems to rewrite Palestinian history. I assume when you say “OLP” you mean PLO. PLO may be recognized by UN, but PLO itself was a terrorist organization. Long before HAMAS existed it was PLO sponsoring terrorism in the name of “ River to sea , Palestine will be free”.


May be you should brush up your history and come back.

 

Sure but they have no right to occupy the University, harrass Jewish students and interrupt the operation of the place. Free speech is correct. What they are doing is not correct. Sorry.

 

The hatred for Jews runs deep and wide. Why do so many hate the Jews? They seem cultured, peaceful, hard working, religious, and a caring people to me.

 

It was. And now that they aren't they have said that THEIR slogan (not Hamas') refers to exactly the same thing that the protesters say they use it for.

The question I asked was intended to DEMONSTRATE this. Your refusal to answer after three attempts is clear indication that you understood my point and simply refuse to acknowledge it. Therefore, my case is made.... Thanks for playing....