Comparing the college scene, May 1970 with April 2024.

Your question was

“So, I ask again: HOW does it work if you claim that they mean something other than what the OLP defends when they are SAYING that's what they pursue. How do you call for "obliterating Israel" (like some have claimed) by saying "don't obliterate Israel"? I'm serious... how would that work?”

PLO was a terrorist organization which became legitimate because Palestinian supported it, just like HAMAS is a terrorist organization which became legitimate governing body in GAZA. You telling me PLO used this slogan make no difference.

It doesn’t matter what pro-Palestinian’s “intonation” with this slogan. “The river to sea.. Palestine will be free” associated with terrorism long before HAMAS ever existed. Are you telling me these protesters can’t find a different slogan which is not offensive to Jews?

In 2024 I can’t go on the street and call African-Americas “Ne-gro”, and then wonder why people are getting upset.

If the protesters intention is to bring peace , they can write new slogan which doesn’t offend Jews. If the intention is to bring peace between Palestinian and Israelis, may be not offending Israelis is a good start.

 

Maybe the protesting students in 1970 were disgusted and embarrassed by what happened at My Lai? Maybe many of them had friends drafted into the War Machine and had heard stories of things similar to My Lai? No matter, it was demonstrated at Kent State that the US military would very much kill US citizens.

This current wave of protests reflects to some degree the loss of face Israel is experiencing after 50 years of war crimes?

2013 Law Suit: Israel Tried and Found Guilty of War Crimes and Genocide - Global ResearchGlobal Research - Centre for Research on Globalization

Maybe some of those protesters are aware of the USS Liberty attack in 1967? Maybe some of these protestors are aware of the Israeli role in the events of 11 September?

The Kent State protestors were right, with the luxury of hindsight. Are these protestors today against Israel also right?

 

Even the far-right LIKUD party has used the slogan. They have SAID they use it to mean that ISRAEL will control the whole territory. YOUR claim would be that somehow they "secretly" mean that Hamas should dominate the region.

It's not offensive to Jews. It MAY be offensive to Israel. Which is not surprising, given that it's Israel that is slaughtering Palestinians in Gaza. It's a call to STOP that and work for a two-state solution. They SAY that's what it means. Why would anybody SAY it means one thing, if they want it to mean something different. Another poster put "Zieg Heil!" as an example. It was a call to military victory by Nazis. If the Nazis started saying it meant "peaceful coexistence" that would defeat the purpose.

Exactly! Good example. It became an insult when people who used it signaled it was MEANT as an insult. It would not be an insult if those people said it meant "peaceful coexistence". Bottom line, if you want a word or an expression to means something, you DON'T say i t means the opposite.

"From the river to the sea..." does NOT mean they want to exterminate Israel, like anti-Palestine folk claim because, if that's what they WANTED it to mean, they would SAY that's what it means.

When you SAY it means peaceful coexistence it will offend only those who DON'T want peaceful coexistence.

 

So Anti-Semite protester want to continue with the slogan which Israelis/ Jews thinks it means “ distraction of Israeli”.

Well then , I assume Israeli will make sure that doesn’t happen. So the IDF operation continues.

 

Some Israelis think it means "destruction of Israel", others think it means "destruction of Palestine" (see my reference to the use by the Likud Party), others think it means peaceful coexistence. My question was WHY would protesters SAY it meant the last of those three if they intended it to mean the first one.

So do the protests that seek that, even if the IDF continues the massacre, WE stop funding it. Until maybe they can pressure Israel into sitting down and negotiating something that has NEVER been tried: a REAL two-state solution. We don't know what will prevail in the end. But it doesn't look like protesters will give up easy. If they can keep out the MAGA fascists that try to infiltrate them and undermine them away, they might succeed. If they can't, they won't. THAT is the point of this thread: that the protests have many dimensions. And anybody who tries to analyze them as two-dimensional is not understanding what is going on.

 

The thread had no political point. It set out to compare and invite discussion about the current protests on campus directed at the Gaza war and compare it to previous protests on campuses.

Some of us have argued that the vast majority of these current anti Israel participants have never been to Gaza, have no clue of Muslim, Christian or Jewish history in the Middle East and are deliberately deflecting from what Hamas does and did and when questioned show they are unable to enunciate any of the issues entrenched in this complex conflict.

I myself has argued there is something blatantly absurd when people chant slogans calling for the destruction of Israel and death to Jews and in the next breath say they want peace and justice.

Instead I offer the words of Palestinians:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...thers-and-sisters-in-gaza-opinion/ar-BB1jmBze

https://www.newsweek.com/my-fellow-...s-accept-israels-offers-peace-opinion-1864654

https://www.newsweek.com/hamass-ter...stinian-brothers-sisters-gaza-opinion-1841103

I should also once again offer this psychological explanation of what we see manifested in these demonstrators and refer to this article:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/nurturing-self-compassion/201703/the-psychology-hate

I concur with psychologist Bernard Golden, the author of Overcoming Destructive Anger: Strategies That Work, referred to in that article when he states he believes that when hate involves participation in a group, it may help foster a sense of connection and camaraderie that fills a void in one’s identity.

These protestors I would argue engage in what they do to distract themselves from their inability to define who they are (self identity) and what they will do in life and as Golden states:

"Acts of hate are attempts to distract oneself from feelings such as helplessness, powerlessness, injustice, inadequacy and shame. Hate is grounded in some sense of perceived threat. It is an attitude that can give rise to hostility and aggression toward individuals or groups. Like much of anger, it is a reaction to and distraction from some form of inner pain. The individual consumed by hate may believe that the only way to regain some sense of power over his or her pain is to preemptively strike out at others. In this context, each moment of hate is a temporary reprieve from inner suffering."

These protestors conveniently ignore that if they were a student in any Muslim nation or Gaza or West Bank protested against Muslim extremist theocracy, they would be killed.

Never mind they rally along side people who hate gays deny freedom of speech or freedom of religion or equality of the genders-lets just all hold hands and chant death to Jews.

Well I say, confront these protestors for what they are, idiot dupes.

 

Your comments with due respect are naive and I for one do not believe for a second you are that naive. You know damn well and as evidenced from previous comments that Muslim extremist terror cells including Hamas are financed by Iran, China and Russia as part of the war of hegemony between the West and East. Palestinian terror cells are pawns of Iran at this point as they once were Saudi Arabia.

Anyone who thinks if Jews go POOF so do these extremists is either an idiot or brain damaged. Oh take your pick.

By the way we do know how it will end. Like any trendy cause, these protestors will graduate, put on weight, lose their hair, and engage in all the things they accuse Zionists of and become more hateful of Muslims than any Zionist.

Please. You have the evidence in front of you. What happened to all the hippies Golem. Peace and love and waving of the Viet Cong flag, now who are they? Yah go ask Jane Fonda. One day they protest injustice the next day sell aerobics tapes. Get real Golem. Protestors almost always turn into the very thing they claim to hate.

 

Hold on a second... I'm talking about the protests. What are YOU talking about?

Jane Fond made the mistake of posing with North Vietnamese troops. A decision she immediately lamented and for which she has paid a heavy price that is justified despite the many times she has apologized for it.

But that's exactly what I'm referring to in the OP. This is NOT a two-dimensional issue. The stupid actions of a few do NOT characterize a movement. Jane Fonda taking photos with Vietnam troops did not justify sending kids to Vietnam back then. And it most definitely DOES NOT justify the genocide of Palestinians nor does it justify the US funding the killings.

We need to take a step back and see things in their REAL perspective.

 

That is a long and complicated history which I can only partially answer. Part of is that the Jewish religion view Christ as a good man, but not divine. There were also allegations that the Jews, as a people, killed Christ. Passion Plays have long raised, well, passions. I heard these fears voiced when the musical, Jesus Christ Superstar, was popular.

In medieval times Jews were allowed to lend money for interest while Christians were not. Many, including the crowed heads of Europe, were in debt to them. King Edward I of England owed a great deal of money to Jewish bankers. His solution was to expel large numbers of Jews from England.

These factors and many more account for tensions between Christians and Jews for centuries.

 

The 70's protesters taught today's professors.

Uncharted territory in court and on campus: The current of viciousness and unthinking sloganeering, so at odds with the stated purpose of these pampered institutions, is breathtaking.

'The two big stories du jour are
1) the continuing campus assault on sanity, brought to you by the pro-terrorist “death-to-America-Death-to-Israel” lobby, and
2) the circus of the nationwide legal manhunt against the once and future president of the United States, Donald Trump.'

As too much of the Left goes mad.

'Interviewer: Why are you protesting?
Protester #1: I don’t know. I’m pretty sure there’s something about Israel [turns to friend] Why are we protesting?
Protester #2: I wish I was more educated.
Protester #1: I’m not either.'

'(apologies to Tennyson) “In the Spring a Young Girl’s Fancy Lightly Turns to Thoughts of Protest.”'

'Much darker is the current of — well, I was going to say “antisemitism,” but really it is snarling, anti-civilizational hatred, the objects of which are incidentally Jews and Israel, but more broadly are America and “the West” generally. Emblematic was the mob of Yale students on Beinecke Plaza shouting “Viva, Viva Palestina” as they tore down an American flag and cheered when it hit the ground. . . .'

They aren't anti-War, they just are for the other side.

'Also breathtaking is the whole-of-government assault on one man, Donald Trump. As I write, two big cases are before the Supreme Court. One, hailing from ashes of Enron’s collapse, has to do with whether a statute devised to criminalize the willful destruction of documents can be deployed against people like the January 6 protesters, many of whom were accused of “obstructing an official proceeding,” just as those Enron executives were accused of doing. Except, of course, the cases are wildly different. Many observers expect the Court to find for the defendant, in which case, Donald Trump, too, will see some of the charges against him evaporate.'

These elements of the Left will just get 'progressively' more insane between now and the election.

 

Since January 2024, in past 4 months 8500 rockets fired from Gaza strip to Israel. The distraction of Israel continues and latte liberals say not a single thing.

Oh , we do understand. 99% of students wants to get on with their lives , finish their semester and go home. Less then 1% students, backed by some liberals and Saudi money , what an unholy coalition, liberals and Muslim extremist, protesting against Jews and Israel.

Yea, we all understand the dimensions. Those protest are not going anywhere. The Hmas loving congressman and women , the squad, half of them will lose their primary to pro-Israel Democrats. Ask Cori Bush, Ilhan Omar or Jamaal Bowman, how their primary going. Even AOC distance herself from HAMAS loving squad.

US Stop Funding Israel so those 8500 rocket can kill Israelis? Yea, I understand the “destruction of the Israel “ is the objective of Palestinian and their supporter. But we the majority American will continue funding Israel as long as Arab Muslims wants to kill them.

 

And they seem to have control of the Poison Ivy Leagues.

'calls for moderation will fall on deaf ears. The Left’s activist base sees blood. They know that the establishment can’t resist kowtowing to their demands—from the presidents of Columbia and Harvard to the president of the United States.'

'Hamas and Iran have called the student radicals “leaders of the future,” and it’s hard to deny that’s true. Ivy League and other elite colleges have been the pipeline to power in this country.'

'These are the people who will staff the White House and the human resource departments of the world’s largest companies. They are the footsoldiers of the countless nongovernmental organizations that soak up billions of taxpayer and donor dollars to promote left-wing causes.'

And the GOP House is always ready to cave in order to continue the tax payer funding of these Leftists.

 

I know you are just spreading the right-wing alternative reality. Which is fine. No need to be factual.

I am liberal and so are majority who support democrats. This 1% students and latte liberals are not taking over Democratic party and Joe Biden. I know MAGA world like to point to “The Squad” and Rashida Talib, but lets be f*** honest. The reason USA can send aid to Israel, because Democrats protecting GOP speaker of the House from the MAGA crazy like MTG.

 

That's fake news. The House passed aid for Israel in November with the understanding that the $14.5B would be offset by cuts elsewhere.

https://apnews.com/article/house-is...s-biden-gaza-b7bfe528b12ac5954cfd5c034f11320d

But they caved, so you're happy. You must like lots of debt and inflation and shrinking real wages.

 

EXCEPT they weren't forcing those vets to pay for those brats' tuition. HUGE difference.

 

House passed a bill which was never signed by POTUS.

You know bill POTUS didn’t sign good for? Not even wipe a$$.

 

And we helped protect the loss of innocent life in Israel. Protesters believe we should also protect loss of innocent life in Palestine. I don't believe either has supremacy over the other.

I don't know where you get your percentages but that is EXACTLY the purpose of protests: to make people aware. Anybody protesting against Jews is a fascist. Protesting against Israel's actions is the whole point.

I don't know if they are or not. For the moment they appear to be growing. But that has no bearing on the fact that they are RIGHT!

No! I SAID funding the slaughter. Defensive weapons are NOT what is used to slaughter Palestinian civilians.

And conscientious people will continue protesting our funding genocide, while they have the energy.

 

Active campus opposition to the Vietnam War, South African apartheid, the Iraq fiasco, and the Afghanistan quagmire were all justified in retrospect, although fiercely condemned at the time by regressive elements. I expect that the outrage at Netanyahu's wanton slaughter of tens of thousands of innocents will be treated similarly by history.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu gambled that a strong Hamas (but not too strong)
would keep the peace and reduce pressure for a Palestinian state.
​

Clearly, BooBoo was woefully wrong.

 

May be you should look up the word “ genocide’. In an active war where both side attack each other like firing 8500 rockets in 4 months is not “genocide’. That is called war. Palestinian shouldn’t start a war they can’t win.

Wanting to wiping of Israel, firing 8500 rockets, there is no conscience from HAMAS lover, only when Jews defend and fire back, then oh my goodness “where is your conscience”. When Asad killed 500K Syrian , I didn’t see collage kids protesting, I didn’t see latte liberal had the conscience to speak up. But these students and latte liberals grows conscious when Jews fight back. we got it , they are f**ing antisemite and in America , there is no room for antisemite. .

 

Do you support the Palestinians' who stole raped and tortured the citizens of Israel including women and children?

 

I have used the word correctly but, since I have no interest in wasting time debating semantics, feel free to substitute for any word you prefer.

The people the protests are about have no idea what rockets you're talking about.

The people that the protesters are protesting for didn't start ANY war.

If that's all you had to rebut the protesters' position, I guess that means they're right.

 

I know in alternative reality we can make up all the story in our head and share them with fellow conspiracy theorists and hater.

But

In real world HAMAS fired over 20,000 rockets toward Israel since 2005. Just last 4 months Hamas fired 8500 rockets.

The protester don’t want to hear any of these because in their “alternative reality” Hamas is “alien from outer space with horn and tail” who has no relationship with Palestinian citizen.

In real world Hamas is Palestinian father, brother, sister , and official government of Palestine in Gaza. But those kids in collage campuses have no f**ing idea.

 

Which are not being financed by U.S. taxpayers. So organizing protests against that might make some people "feel good", but they are not going to help much. We DO finance the slaughter of civilians in Palestine though. THAT is where protests could make a difference.

Let's save lives where we CAN.

MAGAs (and people with a MAGA mentality) need to understand that most people live on Earth One. Not in some fantasy-land. Organizing protests is not easy. And to organize protests that have a chance of accomplishing something, that something has to be REAL and it has to be accomplishable. It's not just a matter of "wanting" something to stop. You must be committed and you must have an expectation that you will succeed. Otherwise, you end up with the pathetic crowds in front of the New York court room that Trump once described as "all hell breaking lose".

Not because protesting the fact that terrorists attacked Israel is not laudable. But because they would accomplish NOTHING, in the real world.

Is that too much reality for you to grasp?

 

One must use an open mind in how the world and Gruberment really works..

Let the bidding start

 

Buh, genocide SOUNDS so much MORE threatening..