Wolverine, I agree that someone should be able to use their weapon responsibly. I am a firearms instructor myself and I am a total nazi about weapons handling. No exceptions. To the people saying it is a "non-problem", it is a problem. It should be addressed. There are numerous counts of people not having confidence/proficiency with their weaponry and having it taken from them, and then killed/maimed with the very implement that was supposed to protect them. In my opinion having a weapon you do not know how to effectively use is only a liability. A lucky charm that only works if they other guy is scared of it. Here comes the devil's advocate--- Should it be mandated? No, not really, it restricts owning weaponry even more and only adds to the costs of self defense. This is a problem that shouldn't be solved by legislation in my opinion. It could easily be done during the day at the police headquarters. Have a few cops host a weapons training time at the range and all that can be reasonable accommodated should be admitted for training. Or pay for training, whatever works. Now personally I wouldn't have the cops do it, only because I have seen with absolute horror how most(not all) handle their weapons, and their shot groups can be just as laughable as the guy's group in the beginning of the thread. If you want good weapons training, find an infantry marine and pick his brain. Most would be happy to help you out.
I don't want to discourage you in that you are a new member and clearly one of the more rational thinkers here already, but I would like to point out to you that the "Slippery Slope" is most often a fallacy. When it is applied to gun control it certainly is a fallacy. If the mandate makes rational sense, then we should do it. If not, then we shouldn't. Bringing into the decision a fallacious slippery slope concern is not rational nor helpful.
We've got you beat for loose CCW restrictions down here, Wolverine. Live in-state for 12 months, pass an FBI background check, and fork over $132 samoleons, and you can begin carrying a concealed weapon. No training classes, no live-fire tests, no "hands-on" training whatsoever - if you walk upright, breathe oxygen, and can pass the FBI check, you're good to go. Personally, I'd like to see a little more emphasis on the "hands-on" training, but... it is what it is.
You got that right. I also find that the people that want their first weapon are wary about carry altogether and usually search out some kind of training. For those here that do not carry and the idea of carrying seems to upset them, just think that the person that buys their first weapon, maybe just to keep it at home, think much the same as you do and have some of the same fears. It is about $125 for a lifetime license here to carry. It does not specify conceal carry, just carry. This is a "shall issue" state so it is not up so some desk jockey to decide whether you are worthy or not, you only have to be a "proper person", that is one without a record or other issues such as being an habitual drunk. FBI background check and fingerprints. I don't see training as an issue but talking to local police here, the only issue they have had is that the license does not have a picture on it and they think it is too easily copied. At a minimum, a pamphlet with pictures on how to handle a firearm properly (where not to point it) would be a good thing to include with the license.
The slippery slope need not apply, the only way to ensure people acquire the proper training is through mandate.
Such information is included with firearms, and people still mishandle them. So no, a pamphlet is not enough.
Yet trained personnel have negligent discharges, so if a pamphlet is not good enough and training is not good enough. What next?
There's a big difference between an isolated accidental discharge and overall incompetency and unfamiliarity with weapons handling. I took a guy to the range once, he was a CWL carrier, hadn't fired his gun in a long time - when he went to fire the first round, he forgot where the safety was.
You reduce accidents with more training. You reduce the number of incompetent shooters by requiring CCW applicants to demonstrate proficiency. No need to toss the baby out with the bath water.
Your argument is silly and contrary to all firearms instructors. Training is a benefit. Not a detriment. I have never once read a single self-defense manual that speaks out against training. It is like saying the less I practice the better I will be at piano. Simply asinine. Locate a self-defense manual that advocates ignorance or practice and knowledge. Can't do it? Don't make the argument again. I do not care about police officers. You are comparing apples and oranges. You are comparing people who may carry, people that rarely draw their weapon, to people who are required to carry a weapon, and are required to draw a weapon. CCW holders are not police officers. You continually raise a non-point, move on.
Kinda like saying that since people get in auto accidents, there's no sense in making them take a driver's test.
Some doctors make mistakes, obviously medical school should be dismantled. Maybe if I practice piano less, I'll get better? If I don't practice at all I should be phenomenal. Why settle on Christina Perri? With all the lack of practice, I should be able to do Beethoven by the end of the week. I want to learn Tool's Right in Two on the guitar, perhaps I will learn more effectively by playing You are my Sunshine instead of Right in Two? I will also refrain from practicing with any of my go-to-firearms, since practice actually hampers my abilities instead of refining them. Meh. All that training over the summer, to waste. I don't appreciate being lied to, I thought training would have improved my abilities. .... Amazing how asinine something is when you give it just a little thought.
You'll always have accidents, but you can reduce the likelihood of that happening by training. Which would you rather have - someone who has gone through a firearms course and has at least rudimentary instruction in handling a firearm, or someone who has absolutely no idea how to safely handle a firearm? The lack of basic firearm training/instruction to get a CCW permit here is Mississippi is something that I feel the state needs to change. I'd like to see at least a minimum 8-hour course in firearms proficiency to obtain a CCW.
Yeah, I had written out the tabs from one of the videos a while back. Rewatched it today, and a good portion of it seems unfamiliar. So I need to see if I made errors in writing it down. The only difficult part is remembering all of the different riffs. If I remember correctly, there are 26 unique riffs in the song. I knew most of the song at one time, however I took a very ill reasoned six month break from guitar. Meh.
I agree. Training should be serious and repeated yearly or biyearly to some extent. There will always be accidents and negligence, but you can at least make it reasonable.
Reasonable negligence? Wonder what that is? You can make owning a gun as expensive or difficult as you wish but you will only make it harder to own for those that need one the most. I say keep bureaucracy out of it. If you think that using a gun is some kind of science, it isn't. It is just as effective a tool without firing a shot. Do you think there were training classes the last 200 years of gun ownership? No, but there has always been someone around ready to show the ropes and that dynamic has not changed.
Ayuh,.... Fear, Control, 'n movin' the availability of a Right, Up, 'n Outa the reach of the poorer members of the American society... Typical leftist agenda, havin' a plan to fix a Non-existent problem, while ignoring blatantly obvious problems, with the enforcers... Ei; CCW accidental shootings rarely to never happen, but our Police force can't hit the broad side of a barn, standing Inside, while emptyin' the clip tryin'...
Nope. Fallacy much? Show me where an argument has been made for fear and control? You can't. It is about ensuring that competent people are issued CCW permits, and weeding out those who lack the basic skills to shoot a firearms effectively.
This whole thread is about fear, and fear about something that is not even a proven problem. Hint. It does not take much skill to shoot a gun. It may take skill to actually hit your target, but in that case, many cops fail your scenario.
