Could God the Father be the most emotional being in the universe/ multiverse?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by DennisTate, Aug 7, 2014.

  1. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Which type of project will you tend to get more involve in?

    A job that you invested fifty hours of your time in over one month or a labour of love where you exerted a great deal of effort for 50,000 hours over forty years?

    http://www.near-death.com/experiences/reincarnation04.html#a05
     
  2. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I ran into this idea in chapter 15 of The Vision by Pastor Rick Joyner and I feel that this idea is critical in the turning of the hearts of the children, (us), back to the Fathers, (first and formost of whom is The Heavenly Father, the Ancient of Days), who Rabbi Jesus/Yehoshua stated was greater than him and was aware of even the number of hairs on our heads as well as when a sparrow falls!


    http://www.scribd.com/doc/63814881/TheVision-The-Final-Quest-the-Call-RickJoyner-PDF

     
  3. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Here are a few more paragraphs from that powerful writing.

    Here is a link to the opening fifty pages of The Vision:
    http://www.heaven.net.nz/visions/the-hordes-of-hell-are-marching.htm
     
  4. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Gorn Captain is going to make fun of me for doing this but yes…….. I really think that this writing does tie in with a very important idea expressed by near death experiencer Mellen Thomas Benedict as well as that of Ms. Bev Brodsky:

    http://www.near-death.com/experiences/judaism02.html


    If consciousness and intelligence….. and a striving after "ethics" began in a more fundamental form of energy than we are able to experiment with at this time…….. then would planning and choreographing a nearly infinite number of Big Bang type events tend to make The Ancient of Days the FAther and the Ancient of Days the Mother (perhaps the Holy Spirit/ The Shekina Glory of G-d)………… deeply emotionally attached to this creation…… and especially to humans…… who may well have been given creative capabilities comparable to YHWH/ HaShem/ The G-d of Abraham????!

    And….. if a nearly infinite number of Big Bang type events were planned…… and engineered…… would this make "Fundamental Energy Mom and Dad" the ultimate in scientists…… inventors…… educators??????!

    Might they even…… as many teachers tend to do…… even wax artistic….. .and theatrical……. in order to teach their "children" some of the truly big lessons???!
     
  5. mihapiha

    mihapiha Active Member

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    Your interest in NDEs is really amazing. What is it now? The 5th or so topic you started?

    But let me ask you a question, which I keep thinking about when I read those: Why are NDEs important to your life? I honestly would like to know, why you've chosen to spend so much time on things which undoubtably you think are true, yet have little to no impact on your life, I would imagine. Personally I see it as a waste of time because it doesn't help me here and now, and since I'm sure I'll die eventually I'd like to spend my time the best I can while I'm alive. So naturally I'm curious what makes you consider these stories as important to your life? Or would you say it is just a natural curiosity which is the driving force?
     
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  6. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    For starters.... within about a year of beginning to study NDE accounts I got myself ex-communicated from two churches that had a dogmatic "soul sleep" teaching.

    My first ex-wife went from being part of one church that taught "soul sleep" to another one that also taught it......so my fascination with these accounts did not exactly help to keep us together.

    I remember from one of my psychology classes about how fraternities with more difficult initiation rituals...… tend to have happier members......… and I do suspect that I have invested so much into becoming a part of the community of people that are fascinated by.... and guided by these accounts..... that I suppose it is a natural thing to attempt to prove to myself that I have not wasted all this time and effort?!?!

    Secondly........ based on what I had read about the negative NDE accounts.... I volunteered for a role...… for the rest of my life ..... both here in four dimensional space - time and even after I pass on....... and again..... I would like to think that what I began back in 1990 has some real value to other humans..... both living as well as deceased.......

    In a way...… I am rather hoping that there is a short cut that can initiate the astonishingly peaceful and wonderful future that near death experiencer Howard Storm was shown...… that can bring this to reality in far far far far less than the two centuries or so that he had been told that it would take?!?!

    http://www.christianforums.com/t7647325/
    Yom Kippur/The Rapture connection?!

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    This is just a theory and I may be wrong but after being highly skeptical of the idea of a rapture for most of my life I am now open to the idea that the Rapture could fit in extremely well with the ultimate fulfillment of the Fast of Yom Kippur.

    .......

    My dad, Robert Tate died on January 1, 1990. He had NOT given his heart to Rabbi Jesus/Yahushua so far as I knew.

    Around that time I ran into the near death experience accounts through an article in Psychology Today. As I read several books by Dr. Raymond Moody I went into something of a philosophical/theological crisis as I encountered evidence that the "soul sleep" doctrine that I had been taught by evangelist Garner Ted Armstrong and his dad had almost certainly been terribly in error!

    I had been fasting on Yom Kippur since the late 1970's and I had always wondered what this verse could possibly mean:


    "but the goat on which the lot fell for Aza'zel shall be presented alive before the LORD to make atonement over it, that it may be sent away into the wilderness to Aza'zel."(Leviticus 16:10 RSV)


    ...…
    In a nutshell I have came to strongly suspect that Azazel is the fallen angel who will be somewhat like General Abner who brought the ten tribes over to King David or to Rav Shaul/Paul who repented of persecuting Christians and followers of God.

    I suspect that when the fallen angel Azazel returns to the God of Abraham with his whole heart...when Yom Kippur is completely fulfilled....then a major step will have been taken toward the ushering in of a truly new era of worldwide peace where even the eating habits of wild animals like lions will be altered!



    "And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?"
    (Matthew 12)
     
  7. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If…. these NDE accounts are as close to truth as human beings can express about what they see - hear- sense and feel while viewing what could perhaps be higher dimensions of space - time then……….. one of the implications is that………. human life may have astonishingly high value…… to beings composed of fundamental energy or nearly fundamental energy who have invested astonishing effort in causing us to exist through a combination of both creation…… as well as what could be termed "evolution" as we adapt and learn and improve?!


     
  8. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    NDEs have been life changing experiences for those that have had them. Regardless if they are real or not, they seem to have a quality about them that can change a person, and for the better. Anything that might change people to be better is good, regardless of the source of the NDEs.

    If they give hope for those that have not experienced them, what is wrong with that? People don't want to die, to come to an end, in universe that science says has no meaning at all. Obviously there is a deep desire in most people to have meaning, to think there is more than this just somewhat brutal existence.
     
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  9. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So true.... post #1 here has some intriguing comments on the many positive after effects of an NDE directly from Psychology Today writers...…


    http://www.politicalforum.com/relig...accounts-transform-psychiatry-psychology.html

    Will near death experience accounts transform psychiatry and psychology?



    Psychology Today has devoted more attention to this possibility over the past twenty five years than you might imagine.

    "Bright Lights, Big Mystery | Psychology Today"

    http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200910/bright-lights-big-mystery?page=4


     
  10. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    But is it a desire so deep that they will try to turn a simple bio-chemical reaction in the brain into "proof of the supernatural"? Deluding themselves?
     
  11. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Gorn Captain........ would you consider it relevant if it could be demonstrated that NDE's can quite often produce a surge in IQ?

    I replied to the second part of the Gary Plumley NDE account with the experience of one near death experiencer who seems to have had an increase in IQ after his brush with death:


    http://community.humanityhealing.ne...source=activity&groupId=1388889:Group:1309557


    Gary Plumley's near death experience and IQ surges given to people who have OBE/ NDE?
     
  12. NightSwimmer

    NightSwimmer New Member

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    Not really. The vast majority of people who have a near death experience report no memory of the event whatsoever. Those who do report supernatural experiences tend to write books about their experience and seek celebrity, just as do the folks who report being abducted by aliens.
     
  13. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But….. is it mostly celebrity status that these people are seeking……. or a sense of accomplishment?


    http://www.near-death.com/ritchie.html
     
  14. NightSwimmer

    NightSwimmer New Member

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    I would guess that both celebrity and the money that comes with it are the primary motivators -- same as with the alien abduction crowd.
     
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  15. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is certainly no denying the fact that we all need money to survive!

    Ecclesiastes 10:19
    "A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things."

    But…… I have read two of Dannion Brinkley's books about his NDE and the type of activities that he gets involved in now……. are a vast improvement over the violent behaviour that he exhibited previous to his NDE.

    http://www.dannion.com/the-twilight-brigade/
     
  16. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    No, because even if true, all it shows is that KETAMINE can produce increased neuron reaction or memory improvement.....not that there's "life after death" or "God" or both, which is the claim of NDEers like yourself.
     
  17. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Doesn't really matter, does it? I once saw a child die and the kid was asking what happens after he dies, and was very anxious about it, scared. When his parents told him that he would be with grandma and others who loved him, it actually made it easier for the child. Do I attack those people who told their son that? Do I say they forced a delusion on a child? I think it would have been cruel, heartless. If a delusion helps alleviate fear, suffering, then so be it sir.
     
  18. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    Want to see the video?

    [video=youtube;fWXw8STaFlM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWXw8STaFlM[/video]
     
  19. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Actually I did not watch it. For my own experience is what matters, as well as that child I spoke of. But understand, I, when a child, never was the type to pull the legs off a grasshopper just to see it struggle.

    On NDEs, they have changed the people who have had them, and remembered them. And all were not looking for fame, money. There is one recently. a surgeon and Prof that experienced his own. He didn't need the money. I am not saying they are real, in the sense of going to heaven, but that if you actually believe people have not been changed by them, in a most fundamental way, you are hardly looking very deep, or one is looking with foregone conclusions, doing the looking. Too bad that one's belief's, generally affects perception. That has always been a problem, I think, in other realms of life as well. We see it with political beliefs, ideological beliefs, in that people that have them can only look through the venetian blinds of those beliefs. It is called conditioning. We are all conditioned beings, and objectivity is perhaps almost nonexistent, except in a very few.
     
  20. NightSwimmer

    NightSwimmer New Member

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    Every person that I've ever met who had an NDE doesn't remember anything about it.

    Is it morally okay to tell a dying child that he'll soon be with Grandma and everything will be fine? Sure. Why not?

    Does that justify personally holding belief in magic? Not in my opinion.
     
  21. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Unlocking the Doors of Perception, are we? ;)

    When I was in college I took the opportunity to study Human Perception, and one of the counter-intuitive things we learned is that our perceptual faculties are engineered to limit the amount of information that our brains receive. Some individuals and cultures have figured this out in a less scientific way, which is why we find people ingesting mind-altering drugs to expand their perceptual faculties in order to experience something akin to what people claim to have experienced during a NDE.

    I must say, it was the most fascinating subject I studied in college and it still fascinates me today.
     
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  22. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Actually..... I personally have never had a near death experience but I know people who have had them..... and they are extremely convincing people because whatever it is that they saw has profoundly altered how they view this world and our purpose to be here in it.

    My wife is one of the seventy percent or so of people who have had a brush with death who remember nothing about what she saw while near death but......… she has the side effect that many NDErs get of being amazingly guided - led through psychic gifts and dreams that actually come to pass.

    Back in 2003 or 2004 she had a dream about a gray house on a hill by a lake with some neighbours but not that many.... and a wooden deck or veranda....... I knew that her dreams come to pass so for over a year we went driving around lakes looking for a gray house for sale. After a year life got busy and I forgot about it but in 2006 as she was looking at listings online..... she found one....... I was impressed so we went and had a look......… We ended up purchasing a house only seven years old for about thirty percent of the replacement cost! We are still living it it....... and I know that one of these days I am supposed to build a large wooden deck or veranda?!
     
  23. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes..... this is truly a fascinating topic. The abundance of different "doors" by which we can end up having this type of experience does not necessarily imply that they are therefore less "real!" I was astonished when I read Helen Wambach Ph. D.'s second book on her massive studies of visions of past lives as seen while in hypnotic trance. Beginning in 1965 she regressed 1088 people four thousand years in time and asked them simple questions about what they saw when they perceived a past life. It was amazing that when taken to the day of their death in a "past life"... they perfectly described the major elements of the typical near death experience..... Float outside body...… meet a being of light and review life...… meet deceased relatives and friends......…

    Her study took place over twenty years before Oprah and Dr. Raymond Moody made the phrase "near death experience" in a part of our culture!

    This page lists 22 different ways to induce a near death experience:

    http://www.near-death.com/triggers.html

     
  24. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    I'm sure people who claim to have been abducted by aliens....or "saw a Bigfoot" can be just as convincing.

    But that wasn't my point. You asked about "IQ improvement"....even if I agreed that a rush of ketamine from a "NDE" improved IQ....it would not "prove" any supernatural or magical property to the fact that a naturally occurring bio-chemical exists and could improve intelligence.
     
  25. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Interestingly enough, that was the very question I addressed in the thesis I wrote for my Human Perception class. I got an A, too. :)
     
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