Could the Christian gospel be much worse news?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by DennisTate, Apr 13, 2018.

?

The Christian gospel sounds pretty awful doesn't it?

  1. Yes... only around two percent of us making heaven is scary?

    3 vote(s)
    100.0%
  2. No..... I am sure I will be in heaven.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. The Era of Moshiach / Messiah will be much better. All will know G-d then.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Better news was promised for later on.... in latter days consider wrath of G-d perfectly.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Back around 1990 I went through a pretty serious theological crisis when I found out that the Soul Sleep theory was in error. I had believed in it pretty firmly since the early '70's. It sure sounded a whole lot more humane than the gospel as presented by Dr. Billy Graham..... that had inspired me to become an Atheist from around 1967 - 1973 until I began to listen to Evangelist Garner Ted Armstrong.

    Without Soul Sleep until the resurrection......
    the plan of G-d as explained by Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus sounded pretty awful.

    Matthew 22:14

    "For many are called, but few are chosen."

    Matthew 7:13


    Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
    Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."


    Matthew 5:28

    "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

    And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast itfrom thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

    And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."

    So the possible reality of this hell.... that is so scary that it would be a good idea to take an axe to our right hand....
    made the Gospel / Good News..... look a whole lot less good.

    Near death experiencer Bob Jones was shown that only about two percent of people in North America can go quickly into the paradise / heaven environment after death.

    http://www.thequickenedword.com/rhema/BobJonesTestimonyAugust81975DeathExperience.htm
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
  2. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I decided to write this up as a new topic because a few days ago it hit me.......
    that the beginnings of a theory on why G-d allowed the holocaust to occur can come out of this.......


    Howard Storm Ph. D:
    My theory... is that under certain circumstances.....
    G-d can take a much higher percentage of people into paradise / heaven
    than he could take in during 1975 when Pastor Bob Jones had his near death experience........

    G-d allowed the holocaust to occur.....
    partly because he may have been able to take sixty percent or more of Jews immediately into heaven / paradise.......
    after their deaths in the holocaust.

    The victims of the holocaust had learned to love one another......
    partly due to their facing a seemingly unstoppable opponent.... Hitler's Germany.

    Back in 1975 the economy was booming.......
    and the average American who was passing on who ended up in the line with 98 percent of the people......
    was a victim of this principle......


    Matthew 19:24

    "And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."
     
  3. Gelecski7238

    Gelecski7238 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Confusion/conflict is what you get when ideas of heaven and hell are pigeonholed/compartmentalized. The concept of soul sleep until resurrection sounds like an adjustment that maintains the misleading momentum of Paul, Irenaeus, and the Constantine gang. Chasing the salvation bandwagon was good for consolidating an empire, but salvation didn't originate that way. Salvation is earned, not bestowed. Graduation doesn't come quick and easy, but it's an eventual reward for growing up and waking up (call it enlightenment).

    Even if heeding the old BC source manuscripts, there is still too much Godism IMO. The Creator doesn't seem to work in such sensationalized ways. Something technologically unusual and otherworldly was going on with the Ancient of Days machine and the Ark of the Covenant.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
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  4. Gelecski7238

    Gelecski7238 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    P.S. The Jewish revolts against the Romans in the first two centuries AD featured heavy faith in a theology that severely backfired on them.
     
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  5. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well said....... it didn't take the "Christian" Roman Emperors long to
    adjust Christianity ..... away from its very, very Jewish roots.....
    into something quite different.

    Why reincarnation was edited out of Christianity?

    Bruce F. MacDonald:

    https://www.chabad.org/kabbalah/article_cdo/aid/380599/jewish/Judaism-and-Reincarnation.htm

    Judaism and Reincarnation
    Beginner
    By Yerachmiel Tilles

     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
  6. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wow!

    Did it ever!

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...gog-begin-on-saturday.526095/#post-1068942016
    What Rabbi Akiva did would be similar to a modern Rabbi leading the Orthodox Jewish community to
    kick all Breslovian Chassidic Jews out of Israel........
    for thinking too highly of Rabbi Nachman of Breslov.

    Even at this time..... it seems to be Orthodox Jews who lead the movement to.......
    keep the remains of Rabbi Nachman in the Ukraine.......
    Gentiles like myself can see that the remains of Rabbi Nachman being in Israel......
    would cause a massive boom in tourism to Israel......
    and the Breslovian pilgrims to the tomb of Rabbi Nachman if it was in Israel.....
    would be much safer from potential terrorist attacks.


    Would you like to see the remains of Rabbi Nachman taken to Israel?

    Would you like to see the remains of Rabbi Nachman taken to Israel?
    1. *
      Yes..... his teachings can set the stage for real peace.
      2 vote(s)
      40.0%

    2. No.... his being there would create too much tourism to Israel.
      0 vote(s)
      0.0%

    3. Yes..... his teachings can counter Messianic Judaism.
      1 vote(s)
      20.0%

    4. No..... attention on him would turn people away from Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus.
      1 vote(s)
      20.0%
    5. *
      Yes...... his teachings agree with Islamic and Christian Mysticism.
      1 vote(s)
      20.0%

    6. No........ he had too many out of the body experiences.
      0 vote(s)
      0.0%
    7. *
      Yes....... what harm could this do?
      2 vote(s)
      40.0%

    8. No........ this might make the Islamic extremists angry.
      0 vote(s)
      0.0%
    Multiple votes are allowed
     
  7. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am a very argumentative person......
    but I so love it when I run into lectures and writings that
    I can see no significant error in.

    Rabbi Pinchas Taylor..... is off the scale brilliant......
    and what he states here could become an important step
    toward genuine Shalom even in the Middle East!



    Change Your Life with the Power of Positive Thinking [Law of Attraction]
    Rabbi Pinchas Taylor:

     
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  8. Canell

    Canell Well-Known Member

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    Yes, along with the "good news" the Gospel contains some very bad news (Mathew 24:21), not to mention the Revelation of John.
    In a way it seems like God has cursed humanity - "I have prepared some serious **** for you - The Apocalypse, sorrows, wars and rumors of wars, the Antichrist, the mark of the beast, etc, etc but doncha worry, love thy enemy and be faithful even unto death".
     
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  9. delade

    delade Well-Known Member

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    It does sound scary. I agree. Its better to cut off your own hand than it will be in hell. And how gruesome can cutting off your own hand be which is supposedly less than what hell supposedly is like.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-35341256


    So yes. It is scary to see hell and God this way. But is this perception true and accurate to what is written, in both The Holy Bible and The Qur'an? Not to mention other sacred texts from other parts of the past civilizations?

    The answer is no. God is first LOVE. HE created All through Love, In Love, For Love. And when HE was finished, HE didn't put up HIS Love gear and resume HIS serious. HE IS and will Always Be the same as when HE began creating.


    HE is not mentally diagnosed as split personality, or dissociative identity disorder, or D.I.D.


    And so the continuation goes on. Well, if God IS a nice Person, then why does it seem as if He beats me up on the inside?

    For this to be properly discussed the person needs to share certain general specifics such as HOW the person feels or is getting beat up on the inside. Getting beat up for 'wrong doings'? And if so, why would God need to beat anybody up for 'wrongdoings'? Why would HE have ANY NEED to BEAT UP? it would make Him out to be a cold and unmerciful and unwilling Person. Even my neighbors are more understanding, merciful and willing than He might be. AND my neighbors are Chinese Communists or Russian KGB!!! So how would God be LESS understanding, less merciful, less willing than they?

    This is not correct knowledge of HIM so to even think to begin to answer this would be starting on the wrong race tract.


    The end result, running on the wrong race tract, will not get you to the proper finish ribbon although you will cross the finish line.


    Besides, on which tract might I be running on with my viewpoints of Chinese Communists or Russian KGB? Maybe the wrong one.

    Here is an example, a general specific one.




    What does 'until the pebbles grow into boulders lush with moss' mean to you?

    AND... is this concept even physically/scientifically possible? So either way, how are they being seen as by the International Community if they do not know what 'pebbles grow into boulders lush with moss' means themselves?

    Is Japan still a pebble? Is it in the growing process into being a boulder? Is Japan a boulder but not yet fully lush with moss? What is Japan if only their Anthem is used to get an understanding of howJapan is, as a general specific description or 'national anthem', if only the Anthem was to be received and learned from?


    The same applies to knowledge of GOD and HIS KINGDOM to which HE IS HEAD.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
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  10. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Very interesting..... I have some friends living in Japan and I am tempted to begin a discussion on the Asia forum
    dedicated to the theory that some groups from the lost tribes of Israel migrated to Japan.......
    and had a heavy influence on the Shinto religion.


    http://beta.moshiach.com/index.php/item/japan
    Japan
    Written by Arimasa Kubo

    Israelites Came To Ancient Japan
    ......
    It took me many years.... but eventually I came to believe firmly that G-d
    is working out a plan for Eventual Universal Salvation for every human
    ever conceived........ and the restoration of every human will I believe......
    eventually result even in the restoration of the angels who fell and followed
    Lucifer.

    http://www.allaboutchristian.com/spirituality/index.html
    Christian Andreason, chapter 3,
    This truth though is not so easy to see at first.......
    but I do believe that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus is keeping
    one of his promises through many modern near death experience
    accounts.

    John 16:25

    "These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father."
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
  11. Gelecski7238

    Gelecski7238 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Awesome. The concepts explained by the Rabbi are mirrored in Handbook for the New Paradigm and/or companion works. I wonder if the concepts were copied across. OTOH, access to universal truth is not limited to opportunities for copying.
     
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  12. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Interesting indeed.......
    this is the first that I heard of that book......
    and teaching series......

     
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  13. delade

    delade Well-Known Member

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    If you do go to the Asia forum, maybe a Japanese person would tell you what pebbles growing into boulders covered in moss means. And if you get a chance maybe letting me know, if you want.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2018
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  14. Gelecski7238

    Gelecski7238 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Although I will have to get back to that long media version repeatedly when I have the opportunities, in between times I grabbed this other source that tackles such matters in a somewhat deep, mind-blowing analytical manner. I am still reeling from the blows. Here is my synopsis that begins at part II.

    Belief in God can be supported persuasively using quantum mechanics and mind-based theory. Disbelief based on lack of physical evidence is invalid because ordinary physical science can’t produce an analysis of the basis of physical reality that is comprehensive and accurate.

    Part I

    Ordinary science that is applicable to objective physical reality is thwarted in its efforts to assess the true nature of the constituents of matter. It can determine either the mass or the momentum (location, etc.) of a particle but not both. Ordinary science is also unable to account for the behavior of atomic components and subcomponents that is contrary to the natural laws of physics.

    Quantum mechanics has demonstrated a subjective process by which physical reality is shaped beforehand with an involvement of consciousness as a pivotal factor. Anyone who has not yet accepted the revelations of QM and said limitations of ordinary science should research these matters until they do and get used to it.

    The double slit experiment featured in QM investigations done way back in the 1930s generated far-reaching implications, but until recent times most of humanity has been inattentive and has had little suspicion of the many floodgates of new knowledge that can be opened in support of the struggle against exploitation and destabilization.

    We have been spoon-fed a preference for pushing ahead indifferently, remaining ignorantly preoccupied with materiality, caught up in the momentum of repeatedly ratcheting-up conflict-producing practices based on self-serving motives.

    Elements in the establishment have fought long and hard to steer popular thinking away from clues on broad insight and more towards letting us stymie ourselves as if corralled by circular reasoning (example of the former: covered up discoveries of giant human skeletons).

    We are on a collision course with the consequences of the mental blindness of ourselves and the insatiable bullies who insist on risking all in a skirmish with black-hole effects rather than weaken the profit pattern of the status quo via timely upgrades that are long overdue.

    Mounting insecurity and territorial disputes may well lead to a rerun of the kind of destructive violence that appears to have spread beyond the boundaries of a single planet in the distant past.

    Part II

    Strange as it may sound, there are compelling reasons for believing in God without believing in the existence of God. The believable God is a Spiritual Ideal aka “The Mind of God,” aka “The Holy Spirit,” a universal mind that tends to have influence below the level of our conscious awareness. It is representative of the full potential harmonious state of the entire human race. When it develops in an individual, it is based in the unconscious mind and is known as the “The Holy Ghost.”

    Reality-altering effects of its influence can be brought about by one or more individuals possessing a favorable integration of the conscious and unconscious parts of the mind. Also, about 5% of the population has intuitive capabilities (“the second mind”) of doing the same, but some perceive this manifestation as an agent in a separate part of themselves.

    The production of our physical reality is guided from one microsecond to another by an unconscious consensus of all human minds in a collective known as the Universal Belief. A disparity tends to develop between the Ideal Mind and the UB. Any motive that is contrary to the logic and standards of the Ideal Mind is an unrealistic motive that can increase the level of conflict in the UB.

    When a mounting level of conflict in the UB cannot be reduced (say due to the stubbornness of the conscious deviators), a subconscious consensus may agree on a necessary mass sacrifice that can include innocent collateral parties and/or happen only as a miracle. The corrective action affects the ongoing formation of reality and may take the form of a natural disaster. It is implemented unconsciously by one or more persons who have the special capabilities previously described.

    That is how some civilizations have been decimated or destroyed. Sometimes it can occur without explainable cause during the blink of an eye. Do not underestimate the power of the qualified mind!

    Few people will want to accept any explanation that seems unlikely and shocking, particularly if it is only a concise sampling of a more extensive work. However, my assessment of it is “If the shoe fits, wear it.” Unfortunately, the shoe fits all too well across a vast span of human existence.

    Dark Energy (Dark Matter and Dark Flow) by Alex J. Morrey, 2010 issue, 127 pages.
     
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  15. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wow!!!!!!!!!

    One of the posters on this forum is a Theoretical Physicist...... he probably has already ran into this......
    but in the off chance that he hasn't I am thinking that I should send this to him....... through a personal message!

    Some of his ideas are here:

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...cal-implications-of-multiverse-theory.424926/
     
  16. YourBrainIsGod

    YourBrainIsGod Well-Known Member

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    I don’t concern myself with the musings of men on the condition of God. They too often wish idolatry of themselves.
     
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  17. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Former Atheist and near death experiencer Mellen Benedict was shown that G-d......
    is extremely conscious of you and I!

    https://www.near-death.com/reincarnation/experiences/mellen-thomas-benedict.html#a05
     
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  18. YourBrainIsGod

    YourBrainIsGod Well-Known Member

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    Out of curiousity, have you ever payed attention to Alan Watts? He has many exerpts on youtube if you’re interested. As a Buddhist he brings up this concept of an ultimate consciousness which is very captivating. Something I always appreciated from the Eastern philosophies.
     
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  19. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Buddhist mystics deliberately induce out of the body experiences........
    through various methods.... one of which is fasting... another is extreme meditation.....
    and are shown things that 99% of Christians like myself know nothing about......

    Near death experiencer Christian Andreason was shown what his own over soul / Shul,
    was like.


    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...reason-is-he-onto-something-important.401732/

    http://www.allaboutchristian.com/spirituality/
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
  20. delade

    delade Well-Known Member

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    Did you know that Charles Manson and his 'family' were LSD users? It was confessed by them, that LSD played a part in their killings and they testified that while under the influence of LSD that they were not completely in control of themselves but that the LSD had a good part in 'leading' them into the acts which they did.

    Kind of like doing what the drug leads you to do without putting too much thought into what is actually being done.

    But this was years and years after they started using drugs...

    -

    As a young teen, Susan Atkins sang in her church choir in San Jose, California and nursed her mother, who was dying of cancer. After her mother's death, however, her life went seriously off course. She fought with her father, dropped out of high school, and moved to San Francisco where she became a topless dancer, hustler, and gun moll.

    While living in San Francisco's Haight-Ashbury district in 1967, Atkins met Charles Manson. In her grand jury testimony, Atkins said Manson "gave me the faith in myself to be able to know that I am a women....I gave myself to him." Atkins said there was "no limit" to what she would do for "the only complete man I have ever met." To Atkins, Manson "represented a Jesus Christ-like person."

    Atkins spent a year-and-a-half traveling around the Southwest with other Manson Family members on an old school bus, taking lots of LSD

    http://www.famous-trials.com/manson/247-defendants


    hanging out with other users, and if left to 'do as pleased', leads to the openess between them to the point of 'no holds barred' between them. and as the drugs take you deeper and deeper into realms you've never been in, you are open enough and the group is open enough to share in those thoughts and an exchange and experiment can also be part of their openness with each other. As more drugs are used, and as they take you deeper and deeper into the dark abyss, more topics of experimentation and discussion emerge.. And because they are so open and permissible and accepting of one another, there is noone to keep in checks and balances.

    LSD is a psychedelic.. Meth is not...

    Meth and being open with others can lead to the same, but because meth calls for alertness and not lethargy, the mind is still active yet not as rational.

    LSD calls for lethargy and the 'letting' the time roll by, attitude.


    So to call a regular LSD user lazy would be like calling a habitual meth user irrational.

    To them, it is not true and they find it as a personal attack to their non drug self.


    When you don't have to worry about paying monthly bills of sorts and if you can spend every day not having to worry about any monthly bills, then I'm sure, you could come up with reasons why such a lifestyle should not be 'condemned'.

    The ONLY people I know that fall into this category.. to not have to worry about any monthly bills, are children who are still in Elementary/High/maybe some College school still living under their parents' roof.

    Either that or they might be living freely without paying rent, such as ownership with utility and monthly overhead expenses already paid, or living freely off the land without monthly paper bills.


    And to think that the public adults are the ones that might be allowing for such is what is strange!!!


    Regardless if the adults are from another Country or not... without regular adult workers, the city cannot stay afloat...
     
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  21. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My daughter's favourite teacher and speaker wasted 22 years of his life as
    a drug addict but he has channelled his guilt into working for Messiah Yeshua - Jesus with
    an effectiveness that has totally amazed all of us in this family.

    All of us have been transformed by the teachings and direct simple wisdom that has been given to Todd White:



    Todd White - You Can't Do This in Your Own Strength
    302,097 views
     
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  22. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It seems apparent that hundreds..... actually thousands.... if not tens of thousands of early Christians were believers in Eventual Universal Salvation.


    Indeed Very Many: Universalism in the Early Church

     
  23. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Evangelist Garner Ted Armstrong. ??? Say it isn't so.. He was a charlatan.
     
  24. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I was an Atheist until I heard him rip into traditional Darwinian Evolutionary Theory.......
    He had some great ideas on Ezekiel chapter 37 and Revelations chapter 20 and 21 that got me started in the general direction of Eventual Universal Salvation....

    He got me fasting on Yom Kippur and at least got me introduced to some basic ideas of Judaism.......
    so I am awfully glad that I found him rather than somebody else to mentor me out of the total disbelief that
    hearing a Hellfire and Brimstone sermon by Dr. Billy Graham had gotten me into!
     
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  25. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Late founder of the Garner Ted Armstrong Evangelistic Association, he was removed from the Worldwide Church of God by his father Herbert over control issues and immorality.

    He then organized the Church Of God International (COGI) where he was also removed by leadership for immorality.

    He again created a new organization, the Intercontinental Church Of God (ICG) under the umbrella of the Garner Ted Armstrong Evangelistic Association. He also hosted the Garner Ted Armstrong television broadcast, and was the self-proclaimed "Ezekiel Watchman" (main prophetic spokesman for God on earth).

    NO Mark Armstrong Continuing in the footsteps of his father Garner Ted, he leads behind the scenes as head of the Intercontinental Church of God (ICG), and claims it is the only "true church" on earth. He regularly travels, speaking at "independent" Church of God (COG) churches, conferences, campaigns and meetings. The organization continues to promote and sell video, audio and other ministry materials under the name "Garner Ted Armstrong Evangelistic Association" which promotes radical views of end-times prophecy and global destruction.

    http://soundchristian.com/prophecy/who/whoswho.pdf
     
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