date rape is a fake crime....

Notice the plural, participant(s)
How many were there ?

 

Why is the assumption that she was willing and/or able to choose?

 

are we speaking of the unconscious ?

 

So mere consciousness denotes consent?

 

Because she can be held accountable if we ask her to drive to the store for more liquor when she gets a dui, she can be held accountable if she says yes to sex, no matter how poorly I perform....

 

So long as she says yes.... but if she passes out...its over

 

This has probably been said within the 18 pages of this thread, but people who are drunk are deemed to have "diminished capacity" to consent. Hence why a situation like that is open to the possibility of date rape.

 

But I want a clear point. Its too subjective....everyone has seen people who can hold their liquor well but are too drunk to drive. And since there is no real criteria to what is too drunk, can a gilt who took a shot of nyquil before she cheats on her hubby claim she was too drunk to know and then claim daterape just tsave hrs own ass? People o. Here suggest they have no problem with a man having to go to court to defend such obvious outrageous lies even though that can ruin them before the truth comes out. And then, even when it comes out it was extortion, or revenge or just lies... nothing happens to the girl.

 

Why are they never deemed to have to bear the consequences of their actions?

Ooops....I remember, because they are female, and females are entitled to get smashed out of their brains, lead on men, who are also smashed, but the the man has to have much more of a sense of responsibility when smashed than the woman?

Equality my arse!

 

True. Women seem to think they have a right to get drunk as skunks and they expect any drunken man to control himself, while they go around rubbing themselves against any man they see and then complain when he makes a pass at her.

 

Snap, Gwen!

 

What do I mean?

I mean that just because women have been/are often victimized, the system equates them with victimhood and legislates on a "just in case" basis.

So, "just in case" means that equality does not mean "equality of opportunity"..it doesn't even appear to mean means "equality of outcome", it appears to mean more equal than men.

"Just in case" means anonymity for the alleged victim in rape cases, but not anonymity for the alleged rapist. That to me is prejudging the issue simply on the basis that he is male and men are rapists.

"Just in case" appears to mean that women who have underage sex with boys get less punishment than men who commit the same acts with underage girls.

"Just in case" appears to mean female teachers having sex with underage male pupils receive lesser sentences than male teachers having sex with underage female pupils

"Just in case" appears to mean that sexual grooming over the internet gets the least punishment in female/female grooming, up to twice as much jail time in male/male grooming and nearly double again for male/female grooming.

 

If I were a woman I would be offended by the maternalistic legislation that assumes I'm weak and incompetent to care for myself. Of course, if I was a woman I probably wouldn't feel that way, would I?

 

independence is so hard.

 

Some of us do feel that way!

 

I thought I'd post some other examples of date rape - and not just when a girl is drunk - which seems to be the only focus / thing being discussed in this thread. I thought it could be instructive to look at the different ways that a date rape can occur. I'll post a couple, but a link is provided to read more:

http://www.aboutdaterape.nsw.gov.au/stories/stories.html

 

Read them on the site a while ago, Gwen.

Bear in mind, nobody is denying the existence of Date Rape....what is being asked is at what stage silly women are going to take responsibility for themselves and not rely on nanny Governments to take responsibility for their own actions away from them by letting them cry rape when they wake in regret mode.....or if the bloke doesn't phone again?

Or do you think that the demand that law rather than moral principle and common sense should protect women in situations of their own making should require carrying around pre-sex contracts and a pen...or video cameras with sound in every room in every house, college etc so that there is a visual record of her NOT saying NO?

 

You're getting your right-wing talking points scrambled here.

Or it's a simple recognition that rape victims are more often than not branded sluts/whores, and are threatened to shut their mouths or else; high-profile rape cases bear this out. Even just considering the vitriol against your own sex you've shown thus far on this thread, this precaution appears justified.

Men wield more power in society, and can and do bring force more to bear when coercing the underage.

Define 'grooming' for us?

 

The 1st story is outright rape. The 2nd story is more interesting. The 2nd story doesn't contain the details what she told him after he replied with the "I am your boyfriend so I can" stuff. Nobody teaches highschool boys how to ignore the traditional Hollywood movie stuff that you "only have to push women a little" to get what you "want". I would be wondering at this time what else he did to Kate that he didn't only get (presumably) kicked out of the square dance school, but also get charged by the police. I think as a guy that it is absolutely important that every girl can build up her experimentation with boys in a way that is safe for her, so that nobody becomes a victim later. But if there is nothing for the school boys that would teach them boundaries and how to appreciate a woman instead of just the unreal stories of "relationships" out of action movies, then half the boys will just follow peer pressure and harrass girls like this. Kate's story goes on in high schools and college dorms every day, and normally Kate and her friends deal with these guys by telling each other. If he really didn't do anything else but only gave that demented answer to her, do you still think that he raped her or was he rather a victim of his own cicumstances?

 

I am only focusing on the fake date rape....the change your mind after the fact kind.

Drug a girl without her knowledge is clearly daterape

As was stated, story 1 is not date rape. Sure it was on a date, but he forced himself upon her....its rape

Story 2 is interesting.... it can be assumed he did it against her will, but without knowing what she said... she could have just as easily have said ok, then regretted it after and then. Left out that part when she thought she may get in trouble for letting it happen.

 

So it is right wing to think that women are now more equal than men? First time in my life I've ever been mistaken for a Tory.

I have no problem with alleged victims being anonymous to protect them.....but I do find it really unfair and inequitable that the man..who has not had his day in court is NOT allowed the same privilege until he has been found guilty of something. And funnily enough, it was proposed in the UK...but feminist activists scuppered it.

In fact, given the attitude to alleged sex offenders in the UK red-top media and the gullibility of their readers, I kinda think that all sex offenders should have anonymity until they have been found guilty.

Such crap!

Child grooming refers to actions deliberately undertaken with the aim of befriending and establishing an emotional connection with a child, in order to lower the child's inhibitions in preparation for sexual activity with the child.

Sexual grooming of children also occurs on the Internet...as did the three cases I cited.

 

The girl in story 2 was disabled and if she was developmentally disabled.....then regardless of anything else it was rape.

 

Agreed.....

 

Yes, as this is both certainly NOT the case... and the language itself apes right-wing Backlash rhetoric (See American feminist Susan Faludi's work on this).

Considering how much sympathy alleged rapists receive in the press (at least in the US), I'd be in favor of keeping his name anonymous too.

This isn't exactly a rebuttal.

Yes, this is more of a problem with men, particularly when it comes to American market-dominated culture, which sexualizes and fetishizes young girls.

A lotta talk, not a lotta walk.

Polanski is a bona-fide rapist, no doubt.