Did Russia want Trump to win?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by nelsonhumphreys, Apr 27, 2017.

  1. nelsonhumphreys

    nelsonhumphreys Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    8
    There are a number of therories out there about what happened with Russia and our election, and why. We can use the scientific method to weed out the ones that can be proven false. The basic technique is to develope one or more theories, you then collect data and check each theory against the data. Any GOOD data that is inconsistent with a theory proves the theory false. In other words, to be potentially true, a theory must not contridict the facts.

    The theories of why Russia hacked into politicians leading up to the 2016 election include:

    1. The Russians wanted Trump to win.

    2. The Russians wanted to blackmail a future President Clinton

    3. The Russians wanted to weaken the President of the USA so that they could have greater power in the world. Some broaden this to them just wanting to reduce confidence in democracy.

    The facts that are almost universally agreed to are:

    1. Putin ordered cyber attacks on the RNC and DNC, as well as a number of politically active people and groups in early 2015. The Russain backed hacks of the DNC and Podesto were sucessful with compromising information stolen by June of 2015.

    2. Trump was given very little to zero chance of winning.

    3. Wikileaks started to release information just before and during the Democrat convention proving that the DNC was not neutral in the primairy, and manipulated the primairy in Clinton's favor.

    4. Wiki also released podesto e-mails starting the same time as released stories about Trump's sexual antics.

    5. There was no release of information that would damage Trump's rivals in the Republican primairy.

    6. shortly after Trump won the election, a Russian operative claimed that Trump campaign staff had regular meetings with Russian inteligence to coordinate the campaign. So far, there is no proof of that happening. There were however, multiple contacts between Russia and Trump operatives after the election, and a few before the election as well.

    So, how do these facts line up with the theories of why Russia is trying to interfere in our election? The first one, is quite popular, but is hard to square with many facts. If Russia acted because they wanted Trump to win, how do you explain that the hacks occurred before Trump was a candidate, and the orders to cyber attack the democrats came months before his candidacy? If they wantedTrump to win, they would have tried to influence the priamairy as well. After the election, the release of a claim that Trump had been part of the plot also makes little sense if he was "their guy". Also, since Hillary was considered a near certainty, would it make sense to do all this for a lost cause?

    If the purpose was to blackmail Hillary, then the timing of the attacks makessense, but the release of information does not. Once the embarressing information is released, the blackmailer has no leverage. For theory 2 to be true, the Russians must have much more damming information on Clinton, with what was released just a warning to her. For this to be true, Clinton would have to be guilty of some very serious wrong doing, and the Russians have the proof. This is possible if Russia hacked Hillaries private E-mail server, stole state secrets, and found evidence of foundation corrpution. All this is possible, but unsettling at best.

    The third theory seems the most viable. If Russia wanted to weaken the USA President, or reduce public confidence in the election, early attempts to make the frontrunner (Clinton) look bad makes sense. They would not have gotten involved in the Republican contest as it was already a blood bath, and Russia would gain little. The first move would have been to cast doubt on the authenticity of the election, which they did with the DNC dump during the convention. They would have released the worse information when Hillary was highest in the poles (pretty much accurate) to keep the race tight. After the surprise election results, they would have shifted their attack to Trump with the claims he was part of plot. They would try to make public meeting that would look incriminating. And then they would allow the Democratic party to do the rest of the work for them by disrupting the Trump presidency.

    I think we have a winner.
     
  2. nelsonhumphreys

    nelsonhumphreys Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    8
    I think we can add in the 10 months that FBI and congress have been looking for a Trump/Russia collusion, and not finding anything.
     
  3. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2016
    Messages:
    8,604
    Likes Received:
    3,454
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I believe Putin wanted Trump to win, yes.

    Putin was already really pissed off at Hillary and Barack.

    But when Putin's general in Syria let the Syrians gas their own people then Putin got to see a side of Trump he did not know.

    I think Putin and Trump will eventually kiss and make friends again and strike a few Siberian oil deals finally.

    It will just take more time after the Syrian SNAFU.
     
  4. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2015
    Messages:
    42,206
    Likes Received:
    14,114
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Oh please. Trump notified the Russians he was going to bomb that empty airport.

    The first three suppositions are probably ALL correct
     
    VietVet likes this.
  5. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2014
    Messages:
    15,359
    Likes Received:
    4,284
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Trump uses Twitter or used twitter, not e-mails. His tweets, some pretty insane and outrageous, other fairly accurate were out there for everyone to read. If one doesn't use e-mail, then it is pretty hard to hack into it.
     
    nelsonhumphreys likes this.
  6. Capt Nice

    Capt Nice Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Messages:
    10,000
    Likes Received:
    10,204
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    And how do we know they found nothing?
     
  7. toddwv

    toddwv Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    Messages:
    30,445
    Likes Received:
    6,429
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Do you actually think Trump doesn't use email just because he blathers all over Twitter on a frequent basis? I'm not sure how anyone would come to that conclusion. Even my 75 year old dad uses email regularly.
     
    VietVet likes this.
  8. toddwv

    toddwv Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    Messages:
    30,445
    Likes Received:
    6,429
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Trump fans are required to say that every chance they get even though there are countless links between the Trump Admin and the Russians and more connections seem to pop out of the woodwork every day. Otherwise, they lose their fanboi card.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2017
  9. PinkFloyd

    PinkFloyd Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2017
    Messages:
    2,386
    Likes Received:
    1,501
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No, they wanted Hillary to win so they focused their efforts on her so they could blackmail her. They could buy Hillary very easily.

    Trump is a wildcard they wanted nothing to do with. Besides, he literally has a set of balls. Something Hillary and Obama never possessed.
     
    Conviction and Ddyad like this.
  10. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2016
    Messages:
    8,604
    Likes Received:
    3,454
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Director Comey said the Russians were antagonistic to Hillary.
     
  11. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2014
    Messages:
    15,359
    Likes Received:
    4,284
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Just something I heard during the campaign. That he can't be hacked because he uses twitter. They were talking about the hacking of the DNC and why not Trump. Twitter was the answer. Made sense at the time.
     
    nelsonhumphreys and Ddyad like this.
  12. VietVet

    VietVet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2017
    Messages:
    4,203
    Likes Received:
    4,859
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The goal is the same as when they tamper in any election - weaken the western democracies by spreading disunity, chaos, and try to see that the poorest candidate wins to hurt Russia's rivals the most.
    I am sure Russia was tampering to help the Brexit vote pass.
     
    nelsonhumphreys likes this.
  13. toddwv

    toddwv Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    Messages:
    30,445
    Likes Received:
    6,429
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I did a quick search and Donald SAYS he doesn't use email. However, I trust what Donald says about as far as I could throw him.
     
    perotista likes this.
  14. toddwv

    toddwv Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    Messages:
    30,445
    Likes Received:
    6,429
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ah. I see. So that's why only DNC/Clinton emails were released? :roflol:

    Do you ACTUALLY believe that bilge?
    :applause:
    That takes an amazing ability to shut down the logical centers of the brain.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2017
    VietVet likes this.
  15. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Messages:
    68,085
    Likes Received:
    17,124
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Well, Comey has not been antagonistic to her.
     
  16. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2016
    Messages:
    8,604
    Likes Received:
    3,454
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Comey singlehandedly saved the US Senate and the SCOTUS.
     
  17. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Messages:
    68,085
    Likes Received:
    17,124
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Well, you trusted the email tosser around, Hillary Clinton. That makes absolutely no sense to me.
     
  18. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Messages:
    68,085
    Likes Received:
    17,124
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Explain how that relates to what I said? Thanks.
     
  19. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2016
    Messages:
    8,604
    Likes Received:
    3,454
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It rather contradicts and refutes what you said, I would say.

    If Comey wanted Hillary to be POTUS he would have said she is a great diplomat and her emails were just fine.

    :D
     
  20. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Messages:
    68,085
    Likes Received:
    17,124
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You might ask the Australian why he leaked the Clinton E mails. Didn't it show she gave Sanders the shaft?
     
    Mircea likes this.
  21. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Messages:
    68,085
    Likes Received:
    17,124
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I did not understand it how you just now related it. I did not say he wanted her to be president. Sure, he could have done even more for her than he did. I realize that.
     
  22. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2016
    Messages:
    8,604
    Likes Received:
    3,454
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Back in the day when everyone was predicting that Hillary would win by a landslide and also win the House and Senate for herself too, it must have taken balls for Comey to say that while Hillary was injudicious she was not criminal regarding the emails. Had Hillary won she could have fired him on the spot for that.
     
  23. VietVet

    VietVet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2017
    Messages:
    4,203
    Likes Received:
    4,859
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    WHAT?
    Comey could well have cost Hillary the election by announcing he was investigating Hillary's then-newly-released emails shortly before the election.
    (He did later admit they had found nothing)
    Comey chose not to mention they were investigating the Trump campaign for collusion with Russia before the election - which they were - Comey only told us THAT well AFTER the election.
     
  24. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2012
    Messages:
    23,504
    Likes Received:
    6,571
    Trophy Points:
    113
    He has nothing but work against Russian interests since he was elected.
     
  25. st256

    st256 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2017
    Messages:
    1,676
    Likes Received:
    419
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    He tries save himself only. Russia is not important for Trump. If it will be necessary he will work with Russians. If he will believe that it helps to rise his rating he will work against.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2017

Share This Page