Do many churches preach this?

I went to a church recently because my friend invited me. The preacher was an old man and he perform a typical sermon for the most part, but something struck me as odd. He preached under no circumstances can someone get into heaven without knowing Christ. He said, "Even the holiest of men who lived and died before Christ cam will never set foot in the Kingdom of Heaven." I asked my friend was he was talking about and explain to him that most churches preach that those who came before Christ would be judged on their sins and how they lived not whether they are saved. I guess his church preaches that you have to be a saved christian, and even Noah and Enoch, David or any of the other men who came before Christ would not get into heaven.

 

Sounds like all the services I have attended. Thats basic Christian doctrine, god stating "love me or suffer".

Its a doctrine of fear.

 

Many preachers design their sermons to hit home with those in the congregation who usually never go to church. Sounds like that was this preacher's strategy... and it worked.

I heard a similar sermon once... the msg was YOU'RE EITHER FOR CHRIST... OR YOU'RE AGAINST HIM, THERE IS NO MIDDLE GROUND.

Stuff like that really sticks in the minds of those who don't know Christ.

Obviously.

 

Well, the Catholic church doesn't teach it.

 

I have never heard that taught in any Protestant church either.

 

Er...... the one I used to attend did.

 

Of course, because it is easier to scare people into doing x,y, and z than attempting the same end by different means. Its a pathetic tactic. A doctrine of fear.

 

You call it pathetic... preachers call it effective. The fact that it's being discussed seems to indicate they're right.

 

The conclusions you draw astound me. The issue is that fear should not be used to herd people like cattle into accepting a particular belief and throwing money at the church. Just because it is discussed does not mean that the tactic is right.

Just because it is effective and shackling the weak minded does not make it right.

 

You must not have been listening correctly, or you had a renegade priest.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p122a5p1.htm#p1

From the Catechism:

 

How so, even stillborn babies used to be sent to limbo because they were never baptized. That's what they told me in Catholic school, no baptism no heaven.

 

I think the Pope overturned the Limbo Doctrine in 2006.

 

Gee... that almost sounds like the cops walking and riding around with guns on their hips, shot-gun(s) in the car, protective gear on their bodies. Fear Tactics.

A cop giving me a ticket one day was questioned by me when he asked me to sign the ticket, I stated: "what happens if I don't sign the ticket"... his response was "then I will take you to jail immediately"... My response to that one was "OH OK... " I then signed it with my normal signature and under my signature I printed "under duress". He as what that was, so I explained that he had 'threatened me'.. At the day of appearance in court... the judge threw the case out, leaving me with no fine, no mark against my driving record........... So the moral of the story is "fear tactics don't always work".

 

That's nice of them. Although the babies weren't actually effected by this teaching, I've seen first hand the heart ache of mothers who thought there babies were left in limbo for not having their original sin washed away. When my mother (a devout Catholic) used to work in the NICU she would baptize babies just in case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limbo

On April 22, 2007, the advisory body known as the International Theological Commission released a document, originally commissioned by Pope John Paul II, entitled "The Hope of Salvation for Infants Who Die without Being Baptized."[25]

After tracing the history of the various opinions that have been and are held on the eternal fate of unbaptized infants, including that connected with the theory of the Limbo of Infants, and after examining the theological arguments, the document stated its conclusion as follows:

Our conclusion is that the many factors that we have considered above give serious theological and liturgical grounds for hope that unbaptized infants who die will be saved and enjoy the beatific vision. We emphasize that these are reasons for prayerful hope, rather than grounds for sure knowledge. There is much that simply has not been revealed to us.[26] We live by faith and hope in the God of mercy and love who has been revealed to us in Christ, and the Spirit moves us to pray in constant thankfulness and joy.[27]

What has been revealed to us is that the ordinary way of salvation is by the sacrament of baptism. None of the above considerations should be taken as qualifying the necessity of baptism or justifying delay in administering the sacrament. Rather, as we want to reaffirm in conclusion, they provide strong grounds for hope that God will save infants when we have not been able to do for them what we would have wished to do, namely, to baptize them into the faith and life of the Church.

Pope Benedict XVI authorized publication of this document, indicating that it is considered consonant with the Church's teaching, though it is not an official expression of that teaching.[28] Media reports that by the document "the Pope closed Limbo"[29] are thus without foundation. In fact, the document explicitly states that "the theory of limbo, understood as a state which includes the souls of infants who die subject to original sin and without baptism, and who, therefore, neither merit the beatific vision, nor yet are subjected to any punishment, because they are not guilty of any personal sin. This theory, elaborated by theologians beginning in the Middle Ages, never entered into the dogmatic definitions of the Magisterium, even if that same Magisterium did at times mention the theory in its ordinary teaching up until the Second Vatican Council. It remains therefore a possible theological hypothesis" (second preliminary paragraph); and in paragraph 41 it repeats that the theory of Limbo "remains a possible theological opinion". The document thus allows the hypothesis of a limbo of infants to be held as one of the existing theories about the fate of children who die without being baptised, a question on which there is "no explicit answer" from Scripture or tradition.[28] These theories are not official teaching of the Catholic Church, but are only opinions that the Church does not condemn, permitting them to be held by its members.

 

Yet you signed and appeared in court.

Obviously the fear tactics did work.

 

If it gets you to heaven, it's right. What does money have to do with anything? Think you can buy your way to salvation?

 

So the ends justify the means?

Fear of course. You must tithe for fear of your soul. Shouldn't you know these things?

22 "You must set aside a tithe of your crops -- one-tenth of all the crops you harvest each year. 23 Bring this tithe to the place the LORD your God chooses for his name to be honored, and eat it there in his presence. This applies to your tithes of grain, new wine, olive oil, and the firstborn males of your flocks and herds. The purpose of tithing is to teach you always to fear the LORD your God.
Deuteronomy 14:22-23

 

Still don't see how money has anything to do with the OP. The sermon in question had nothing to do with tithing.

 

It has to do with your salvation obviously.

Main point being, fear. Which I have already spelled out and rejected as a belief system worthy of worship.

 

But you see, believers aren't afraid of hearing that stuff. It only invokes fear in the heart of those who don't believe. Often makes people so guilt-ridden, they become obsessed with religion.

It's true... we see a lot of it on this very forum.

Who's more obsessed with religion... believers or atheists?

 

Of course they are not, they think they are pandering to their mythical character of choice and it makes them feel good.

Considering I do not attend church, nor do I pour over a 2,000 year old book, modify my life in fear of divine retaliation, or give my money on the basis of fear, I would venture to guess the theist is the one obsessed with their religion.

 

Since the first page of 'threads started' on your profile lists 12 active threads under your name in the Religion section, I'd say you're in denial about how important it is for you to find kindred souls. Sounds like not having faith bothers you more than you're willing to admit.

 

Again, the conclusions you draw never cease to amaze me.

Things are often just as they seem, they is little reason to invoke a fairly typical right wing conspiracy to explain things.

 

Do you agree you probably start more threads in the religion section than people who go to church?

Your words say one thing... but your actions quite another.

 

They were not teaching orthodox Catholicism. The correct answer is (and was at that time) that nobody knows. Limbo was just a "theory." It's not now, nor has it ever been Church doctrine.