Don’t weep for Sweden; it is now one of least infected countries

Yes, I agreed with what you wrote previously except for disagreeing with you that they "protected their elderly". However, we don't not know if the patients were given the option to sign off on the morphine cocktail. My guess would be that many elderly people who had a low quality of life from age and pre-extisting comorbidities and not expected to live much longer might have "volunteered". It's definitively a sin against humanity if doctors made those decisions without the patients' consent.

 

Pretty sad :-/

 

Actually, to be honest, all I knew is that they -said- they were protecting their elderly. From what I have heard, they didn't do a very good job of that, but then, a -lot- of countries fell into that boat. Things are definitely looking better now all around though.

 

I have already said it was not called a death drink it was giving Pallative care instead of medical care which resulted in death. I have found one of the the videos I watched now. If you watch it you hear that people over 60 with a physical age of 80 due to comorbidities of problems with drugs and drink were being refused even pretty basic medical help - that is help with Oxygen, Antibiotics and fluids. Dr's were told to give them Pallative Care. This got them on Morphine which apparently makes the ability to breath even harder and also resulted in them, though feeling happy, not having the strength of mind to say no, hence death and that is why I called it the death drug though as I say I later explained that I had only said that because I had forgotten what it was called which I think now is simply Pallative care but Pallative care given instead of quite simple medical help which they may have survived as in the video below.

I hear you say that the same sort of thing was happening in Canada and the US. When I looked at that article I too thought that was much like they were talking in the UK prior to the virus settling in here. However this did not happen in the UK nor as far as I know in North America unless it was to people unable to afford treatment. In the UK they were talking about not putting old people on ventalators. There is a very good reason for that as I think most but certainly a lot of people put on them did not survive and then it took an enormous amount of work to gain any strength so it made sense not to put more frail people on them and now we know they are not the best thing after all. That is where the general idea of not giving medical help to the old but that is not what is being spoken about here. What is being spoken about here is giving Pallative Care to people who get the illness of a level they would be put in hospital and given Oxygen, antibiotics and fluids. That is refusing low grade help to people who might well survive and instead giving them drugs which will given them a 'happy death', which will make breathing problems worse and which will reduce their ability to think clearly and have the sense to ask them to take them off pallative care. They go into all the details.

 

It's called Palliative Care (you keep missing the I) and you paint a grim picture of it. If you do some research, you'll find that many end-of-life patients when Palliative care is chosen over clinical care, actually live longer lives with quality of life.

Look to end-stage cancer patients who despite the prognosis, continue chemotherapy and radiation. Their bodies then can no longer take in nutrients nor can they fight off a simple cold. Then look to those who choose palliative care and some have lived years beyond the expectations of their doctors.

It is natural for a Dr to try and "play God" and believe that they can save everyone, despite knowing that their efforts are in vain.
Those Drs should also be consulting their patients/families and informing them of palliative care as a choice given the terminal condition.

 

Alright, I agree with you in the case of Sweden's elderly issue. It seems you also agree with me that the policies that were put in place in my home province of Ontario, Canada, have led to an exaggeration of deaths here. I can also understand that you would think that this type of thing didn't happen in the U.K. or the U.S. Well, allow me to introduce you to another article that strongly suggests that both of these countries, and many others as well, have exaggerated their Covid 19 death tolls and how that came to pass:
Covid19 Death Figures “A Substantial Over-Estimate” | Off Guardian

I also found an article that focuses exclusively on the UK's testing:
How the UK’s testing policy makes their Covid19 numbers meaningless | Off Guardian

 

A sad topic well described.

 

and if you bother to watch the information given to you, you will find that in Sweden they were giving this to people over 60 who they rated as having a physical age of 80 and those with a drug and drink past rather than give them the very simplest of help for the virus. That is oxygen, antibiotics and fluids by drip when need be.

This is euthanasia. These people were not necessarily going to die. Their death came about because while ill enough with covid 19, an illness which takes a severe whack at the lungs, rather than admitting them to hospital and trying basic care as outlined above, they were straight away given morphine a drug which affects the lungs and would have worsened their condition as well as bluring their mind so that they did not have the clarity of mind to ask questions and demand they give them a chance to fight this illness. In reality what Norway was doing was what Italy had to do when she was most overwhelmed but without Norway being overwhelmed. Instead as first choice. This was euthanasia by any other name done to keep hospitals free for others and if you had watched the video before coming on here not even having read what I said and just being a smarty pants you would have found that there was a further attempt to make this secret telling the public such things as oxygen being dangerous - even likely to explode.

It is one thing coming on like you are superior if you even have read what is said and checked the information but just to act superior when you do not even know what you are talking and have not read and watched what you are criticisng tells a very different story. You being a spelling nazi is just more of the same.

 

To be honest I would not trust Englands collection of data at all. They changed things around so often. I am pretty sure that at first they were only reporting hospital deaths. Then there was 'is it covid or is it not' and I think with the elderly erring on the side of not. Scotland began reporting deaths believed to be by Covid 19 from everywhere - that is hospital, care homes and their own home in the past 28 days. Now the chances are that most of those deaths would have covid as the primary cause of death even if they had other illnesses. As I remember it England wasn't putting this sort of thing in for a long time and then they started. After some time they made the claim that it was not fair. Scotland was only saying the death was by Covid 19 if the person died within 28 days but England was saying it if they ever died after so England started taking some deaths off.

As I understand it there is no demand how people report their stats so there might be big differences between how they do that among countries resulting in different stats.

It is believed the most accurate way to find the number of deaths by Covid 19 is to compare the usual deaths at that time of year with this year and in that the UK in general has substantially under reported deaths.

The testing at the beginning was dreadful. Then it became much better and the UK has one of the most tested populations in the world. However now, just as numbers are again rising, for some reason people are finding it difficult to be tested. The Government was saying recently they were going to test one million a day but that is thought of as just talk.

And as far as numbers infected are concerned I know one day we suddenly had less people who had caught the virus than before. I am as good as certainly that at some time ago we had had over 400,000 infected. At that time we apparently had more infected than in Spain but then that for whatever excuse changed and we went down to the 300,000's.

I think the Westminster Government rather has wanted to play down both the number infected and the deaths. It has come into fierce criticism for having the most deaths in Europe and does not like that at all. Early on the Westminster Government wanted the UK to do herd immunity and so gave up trying to prevent it spreading but it was later forced by public opinion/media to go for lockdown and it does look like we suffered more deaths because of that and of course putting infected people who came out of hospital into care homes to spread it there.

 

duplicate

 

As is generally the case.

 

Seemed I was minimising here. The Government was saying it wanted to test 10 million of us a day at a cost of around a £100 billion but people are saying this is a waste of time and money. It would likely give a lot of false positives and negatives as well as tests as yet are still not good enough.

 

That in itself is shocking

South Korea has had teats that work almost from the first day

 

Sweden's Cvid19 record is not good and in fact deaths per million of the population is nearly the same as the USA.

The USA is the 8th worst death rate per million. Sweden is 10th worst.

 

I'd be surprised if they had them 100%. The reasons given here for wrong results were delays in transporting them to the lab and problems with labelling, barcoding or packaging. That was in May and that was widely administrative. I think we have tried plenty of different tests. We are about to begin which produces results in 90 mins which scientists apparently believe is exceedinly accurate.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...s-covid-nudge-device-uk-imperial-b467761.html

That was two days ago and might have something to do with the Governments desires for mass testing.

But there is another thing about testing which I will explain as best I can remember - which will be roughly. If first there is a negative result the test repeats itself until it gets a positive or the repeats are too high. I think up to somewhere in the thirties is still considered a positive though some countries do it to well into the 40's. This is called a C something value. Now, if someone has a positive result and their C result was 32 they would be likely to be completely asymtomatic and need not be worried at all but if their result was something like 5 or 6 then that would mean they had got a high does of the virus and would be likely to be very ill. The person I heard talking about this was wondering why this was not being given more attention and that if he had a positive test that would be the first thing he would want to know.

 

Sweden's rational and measured response was far better than the response of the US and Europe. Death stats are irrelevant.

The stats for quality of life are what matter, and in that regard Sweden excelled while the US basically self-destructed. Ignoring quality of life issues, the US destroyed businesses and lives. The US plundered the treasury for the benefit of special interests, and in the process set the tone for a sort of civil war, pitting mask wearers against those who don't.

Sweden's quality of life and culture and economy are basically the same as they were. In the US the people have been terrorized and turned against each other.

 

Trumpery is a greater danger to Americans than Covid19.

 

Yes, but the interesting thing is that Sweden refused to do lockdowns. Now let's do a comparative look at The U.S. and Sweden's deaths per million:


So, Sweden refuses to lockdown and plateaus. The U.S. does some lockdowns and goes from being better off then Sweden, to worse off. Now, there are other factors here- perhaps the U.S. is overreporting deaths due to Covid 19 as well. Still, food for thought.

 

That I can agree with .

 

I don't think that the death stats are irrelevant, but I agree with the rest.

 

Agreed, countries have different criteria for determining if someone died from Covid 19 and that is definitely messing up the stats.

 

Sweden sacrificed thousands... for no appreciable gain.

Let’s not do that

 

You sure about that? The way I see it, Sweden certainly had a bumpy start, yes. The way it dealt with its elderly population may have been part of the problem. But in terms of its lack of lockdowns, and comparing the results with the U.S., what do we see? We see that Sweden has essentially moved on- its deaths per million has been drastically reduced. And it did all this while avoiding the economically ruinous lockdowns. In the long term? I think Sweden's policy may have -saved- thousands of lives, when looking at the long term instead of the short.

 

Sweden's response to the virus was a disaster.

They let thousands die and gained nothing..Their neighbors Norway, Finland, and Denmark have and a FRACTION of the infections and death that Sweden had, and suffered similar economic damage.

And currently Sweden is showing higher infections even though they are lower than they were

 

1. Sweden death rate per million is 5 x the world average.
   
   
2. USA is underreporting the Covid death rates.
   
   
3. Vietnam ~0.3 deaths per million. USA 600 deaths per million.
   
   
4. Vietnam shares a border with China.