Extinction Rebellion

Discussion in 'Australia, NZ, Pacific' started by garry17, Oct 8, 2019.

  1. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

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    https://www.theguardian.com/environ...ising-public-on-climate-veteran-activist-says
    It has become apparent that many consider that it is ok to break laws if your cause you lobby for is Important enough to society (according to the particular protagonists).

    In Australia, Greens made correlation between bushfires and climate change while in other areas of the nation snow fell.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-22/bushfire-arson-warning-ahead-of-school-holidays/11528192
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-20/why-do-people-light-bushfires-a-convicted-arsonist-explains/9162190
    So, 85% of bushfires are human induced… So nothing to do with climate change at all…


    Anyway, As quoted there are many reasons for arsonists to light fires and many have nothing to do with fires themselves.


    Complaining that bushfires are direct outcome of climate change and supporting breaking the law for a cause these Green groups support while demonising others for holding to account for doing so, the question has to be asked:

    Just how many of these “so called” green activists light bushfires to highlight their cause???


    Now I know, many will try subjugate the subject and many will attempt to suggest it could never happen. But the truth is it reality.

    Now, Australia has been busy indoctrinating the children, in accordance with the head of the climate council the completely discredited Tim Flannery, it doesn’t take much (in the words of activists) “Yes XR is going to create inconvenience, but they are telling people what to expect. It is totally acceptable what they’re doing...”


    So, were do people draw the line???
     
  2. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The core problem for this sort of activist is that it has the opposite to desired effect. Just look at Bob Brown's caravan.

    They forget that it is not about changing the views of the elites who happen to be in power today, it is about changing the views of the electorate and seeing this through an election.

    I think that if catastrophic climate change is the outcome, that our descendents won't have kind things to say about the Bob Brown's and Greta Thunburg's of the world either.

    We had the opportunity to go with the only viable solution - a LFTR nuclear grid and household solar without batteries - and instead got caught up trying to exploit the situation to create socialism.

    If you want broad electoral support on climate change you argue the air pollution case to the conservatives. You keep power prices AND emissions low with a nuclear grid. You strive for a broad implementation which does not discriminate in favor of "developing nations" like China and India.

    Instead we're left with Green New Deals Bob Brown's utterly counterproductive caravan.

    Go figure.
     
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  3. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Donor

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    These are the lessons learnt from the South African uprising, of the 21,000 dead during apartheid, 14,000 died in the 4 years prior to the end of Apartheid with the majority of the violence committed by school children in the townships.

    Those who got sick of the violence started defending their property against these kids and the violence escalated.... it was very effective combined with the fake news the international media kept pumping out. Open Societies/Get Up understand the power of kids and they will use it to devastating effect, along with their fake stream media you're going to have to strap yourself in.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
  4. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    Disrupting traffic isn’t so heinous.
     
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  5. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

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    No but disagreeing with him is.
     
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  6. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

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    I think you missed the point; I am not actually talking about the protests. I am talking about potential issues with activism. Such as lighting bushfires for no other purpose than to highlight the issues of climate change.


    But are we learning them???

    As everyday people I do believe majority are considerably decent in this area. They teach their children to what depth they should go and to consider others in all their acts.

    BUT when you have political rhetoric not just excusing criminal activity but actively promoting it, I think your nation has a problem. I highlight the Greens in this area due to the fact they are supporting this type of activism. Previously excusing criminal activity by saying “they feel so strongly about the issue”. ALP have been on record telling the people it is perfectly alright to break the law in activism and the coalition (during the Gillard years) standing with protesters displaying signs promoting criminal activity.

    Is the world set to repeat Again and again the stupidity of the past???
     
  7. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

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    I think the problem comes about when activists believe they are above the people and the law because in their mind they are acting on such a serious matter the world needs to stop and take notice of their particular issue... it is a shame, that if we did stop to hear ALL the activists issues, the world would never achieve anything.



    I did think the Greta Thunburg's speech to the UN was interesting. How dare we steal her childhood??? I think that speaks volumes to indoctrinating the children on these issues. Studies today have found children are now living in fear of climate change rather than learning for the future or just living for today.

    However, the issue I am looking at is just how far people will go, especially when people now accept ANY activity that they believes supports their personal causes... Australians previously would condemn people, businesses and leaders for ignoring or promoting indecent activities, if not illegal just down right inconsiderate. Today, if it suites your opinion, applaud it while condemning others for similar...
     
  8. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    That’s a big jump in reasoning. Arsonists don’t light fires to draw attention to climate change, it’s because they are nuts!
     
  9. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

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    Well take David (quoted) lit one of the Ash Wednesday fires, his motive was his girlfriend's infidelity... Didn't consider the possible outcome...


    I once knew a fire chief in a small country town in rural Australia who lit a bunch of fires around his town. When he was finally caught, his excuse was that he wanted to show the need for new fire truck in the area and the need for another bushfire brigade. Maybe nuts and we need to address such appropriately, which is what I am discussing.


    Considering the actions of activism in Australia (which is why I am not discussing the topic of the protest) it isn't a big jump. It is possible that people with questionable mental stability or intellect could decide that they could be justified in such because certain political leaders say it is ok. OR consider the Rhetoric seems to say such…


    I am not pointing the finger at arsonists and suggesting they are saying this, I am saying we should consider OUR rhetoric. Things like Greens Hanson-Young saying the vegan activists breaking and entering on private property and releasing livestock only to be hit and killed on the road nearby is justified because “they feel so strongly about the issue” so we should not prosecute law breakers because of such… And this may give some people the idea…

    I guess, it comes down to knowing what constitutes ‘civil disobediencer’ I would suggest most people don’t understand such.
     
  10. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    I suppose there will be activists on both sides who are nuts.
    Agents provocateurs.
    I feel uneasy about activists targeting private property as you have quoted.
    Many lab animals are bred specifically and don’t have the capacity to live outside that environment. Should we be using animals in this manner?
    Canner worms.
     
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  11. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that is the issue.


    Oh and just to say, I am not targeting the Greens, as they were the latest to make comment they were the party I recalled first. As stated earlier, there are examples throughout the political spectrum..


    I do wonder about experiments on animals. For testing of health reasons I suggest we have too, but it should be limited to necessity. Testing for any other purpose should never happen...


    There are many aspects we all can agree in many of these areas protested, however I do wonder how many are completely switched off by the activities of protestors as indicated in another thread.
     
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  12. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Depends on the animal. Mice for instance I don't think anyone seriously cares about.
     
  13. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

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    Still, I don't believe testing cosmetics on animals are right. as I say, there are just certain things we shouldn't do as a people.
     
  14. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    Not sure there are many places where cosmetic testing on animals is still a 'thing' at least on a large scale, commercial basis. Prepared to be proven wrong of course but most western countries seem to have banned the practice. In any case all the big name, multinational producers want to avoid the PR risks associated with animal testing, even if it is still legal in some obscure jurisdiction.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2019
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  15. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's fine, we can disagree.

    The things they do to mice... by golly. Get them hooked on heroin and watch as their organs slowly shut down due to withdrawal.

    Chucking some makeup on them seems rather tame in comparison.
     
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  16. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

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    but you do get the idea, we should only be testing for necessity. I highlight one of the vanities of human beings, I am sure others can show more.
     
  17. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

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    like dressing up the pig for slaughter...
     
  18. Robert Urbanek

    Robert Urbanek Active Member

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    Given that cars stalled in traffic burn gas inefficiently, obstructing traffic does not seem environmentally responsible.
     
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  19. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'd recommend tossing in some bars of soap when you use the water cannons on them.
     
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  20. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We are living at the moment in a very similar time to that of the thirties. A time Hannah Arendt called 'the Temporary Alliance of the Elite and the Mob' and we see those in that alliance going back in time and recovering the ideals of misogyny, colonialism, white nationalism and so on. This group it appears chooses not to believe in facts or scientists and there is no way anyone could change their minds.

    In Australia from this article it appears you have a corrupt Government one who will be a partner to Trump - and to Johnson if he gets into power.

    Why Is Australia Trying to Shut Down Climate Activism?

    I understand you are having the worst fires ever in New South Wales and are very low on water...but still your Government pretends nothing is happening and uses coal – if the above article is correct that would seem to be for personal gain.

    It is bad enough moving back to the far right but this time we face the loss of our habitat while that goes on. As Paul Mason says in some of his talks, if the UK puts Johnson into Government we can say Goodbye to the Planet. We have never been on such a knife edge.

    In this short clip he speaks about the subject of this thread, XR.


     
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  21. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    Our government is In thrall to the coal miners, unfortunately.
    So many jobs in mining and coal fired power generation, not just income from coal exports.
    Our government denies climate change when its’ effect is staring us in the face.
     
  22. m2catter

    m2catter Well-Known Member

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    Yeap,
    groundwater is still given away for free (to miners), fossil fuel and export (coal) is still strongly supported, and to show that they (our fed. government) really care they hand out a few million $ to drought stricken farmers and to the firees to go and buy a new truck.
    It can't get much more sinister and stupid, can it? We are lost....
    I say to Extinction Rebellion, bring it on, we can't let this government destroy our country and the planet!!!
    Reg.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
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  23. m2catter

    m2catter Well-Known Member

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  24. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your current situation
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-50365131

    Clearly a very short sighted man your Scott Morrison. If he does care for the people who have died, he ought to be thinking about the millions more who will die if he does not tell the truth.

    What is the truth? Australia has always had bush fires has it not?

    https://www.theguardian.com/austral...etween-climate-change-and-bushfires-explainer

    I know nothing about anyone deliberately setting off bush fires and which side they are on. XR is totally against violent action which setting off bush fires most certainly is. Mason speaks however in the little clip I left about how such people could come into the movement and how those in it will need to explain how their actions are against rather than with the movement of XR. Such activities would only be exploited and used against XR and saving the planet.

    The major issue of this thread is XR and their major demand to Governments is 'Tell the Truth'. Public opinion is possibly a bit stronger in the UK about the Climate Emergency which our Government accepted but is not working on. Over 70% of Brits believe the climate emergency is more important for our future than Brexit for instance.

    However we are seeing the same attacks from Government, through our police trying to stop their democratic right of protest. Thankfully our Supreme Court has ruled that the actions of the police against XR were illegal.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environ...ebellion-protests-ruled-illegal-by-high-court
     
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  25. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This really should have Australians concerned.

    Australia's is one of the very worst in the G20 for Greenhouse Gas emissions. It is nowhere near the 1.5 target nor its 'insufficient' NDC 2030 target

    Renewables which you lagged behind in starting are still well behind and apparently your government is proving to be no help here.

    https://www.climate-transparency.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/B2G_2019_Australia.pdf

    Everyone is behind as you can check out here
    https://www.climate-transparency.or...nce/g20report2019#1531904804037-423d5c88-a7a7
    but Australia is scraping the bottom of the can. It would seem your Government is not trying.

    This is really concerning.
     
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