Federal Appeals Court Holds Prop 8 Unconstitutional

You didnt contradict anything I said. What is it you think is rubbish? Protectmarriage.com isnt the state.

 

Generally people dont come forward and instead "scientist" are hired by the defendant.

 

Indeed. The experts that the proponents brought in probably did more to hurt than help their case.

 

There are MORE legal cases pending. Justice will ultimately be served.

So far, it appears that virtually every 'recent' case concerning SSM, challenges and defeats the arguments you have generally relied upon.

 

What you said was irrelevant to who was presenting the merits of the case. It doesn't make a difference if it was the Governor of California or protectmarriage.com. If there were credible witnesses (the "actual scientists" Silhouette referred to) who could have won their case for them they would have been hired and presented, especially considering the huge cost of the trial and what, they contended, was at stake.

 

Nonsense, state of California would of had experts in constitutional law who would have known what evidence needed to be presented.

 

Balderdash! If such evidence existed, the millions of dollars of private finance pumped into the trial would surely have easily eclipsed the paltry means available to this near bankrupt state when it comes to knowing exactly what kind of evidence needed to be presented?

Such evidence would have been attracted to the trial like a moth to a flame; bursting at the seams with the kind of, pregnant, fecundity that is an absolute constitutional requirement of any marriage conducted within the state.

As California is constantly being reminded of the heinous state of its own finances, perhaps it was a grand gesture of economic conservatism that it chose when not committing what's left of its budget to a cause it felt destined to lose and lose miserably?

 

Ahhh a question of money was it? Two governors and two attorney generals, political affiliations aside, didn't want to the defend this case because they knew finding actual admissible evidence and witnesses would be a an extremely difficult challenge. Prop 8 supporters had no trouble raising millions to get the vote in... Why would money have been an issue in defending it? Non profit organisation means they can accept donations from individuals.

The fact it was such a poor defense is because a good defence of such laws, with or without money, is virtually impossible.

 

___Amen.___

 

Nope, question of competence

 

Not really. How can you prove that (if you possibly could)?

 

The defense had plenty of legal assistance/advice and would have exhausted the very few limited arguments for keeping Prop 8 in place no better than if California itself had done it.

Boehner's current legal defence for DOMA states that "gay people have enough political power". That pretty much sums up the kind of legal arguments we're seeing for these cases, no matter who's defending the laws.

 

__Yes indeed!__

 

Neither Boehner' or the Congress has yet had an opportunity to present a legal defense so I cant imagine what you are babbling on about now.

 

reply on next page to Devilmay..

 

Not if the gambling was compulsive and the person could not control it. Then they could get special "class" status and rights previously denied to them. How can we punish them if they were "born that way"? You are spouting the epitome of hypocrisy, whether or not you realize it..

Yes, the People do have a right to disagree. And they did with Proposition 8. So now the Supreme Court must decide who can regulate behaviors: millions of the People or just one guy wearing robes.

Let's return to the compulsive gambler again. Using your yardstick, the gambler therefore should have access to the same loans as anyone else: that his minority status based on something he cannot help should not put him in a position to be denied the same rights that others enjoy.. [see, behaviors get tricky when you start setting them up as protected classes]. One compulsive behavior is as deserving of compassion/rights as another...

Homosexuality is no more part of who a person is than compulsive gambling. And it is no more innate either. Sexual orientation is learned. You don't respect the Mayo Clinic? Investigate the footnotes and cited research if you want more than just the Mayo Clinic's conclusions. You can be an Amicus Brief will contain references to them. Especially with the question of the Supreme Court setting a precedent of identifying a behavior as a class. To mistake a behavior for something that is innate would be a very bad form of legal malpractice. The defense will advise...

 

..:[continued]..

Who else is more respectable than the Mayo Clinic? You list the following, but would any of them come forward to say the Mayo Clinic is wrong?

All those mentioned are branches within the reach of the strong arm of the infiltrated-since-the-1970s-gay-militant-convention-stormed [and therefore highly suspect] APA.

Here's how they maintain order within the "new ranks" there:

On the one hand, the "ethics advice" says the topic of reparative therapy, even if the client desperately wants it, is "highly controversial"...meaning at least two sides are contesting it within the professional ranks... yet goes on to declare victory on behalf of the "keep-people-from-Anne-Heching" side of that controversy. They are quite clear about the punishment for those daring to practice the other side of the issue: YOU WILL HAVE YOUR LICENSE REVOKED. Pretty fascist tactics there. A reasonable person could no more have a lucid debate or explore the art of psychology further on that topic than a wounded lamb in a lion pen.

Essentially, there is a ton of "help" to entice or ease a hetero person into "coming out gay", but strong and virile disincentive for a gay person wanting to "go straight". That means they have achieved cult status within the American Psychological Association.

Perhaps it's the disproportionately high numbers of gay pedophiles in the ranks of the gay culture? People tend to like children and rally to their defense from known dangers to them. From the CDC:

So we have an "epidemic" "pervasive" among gay men of having been sexually molested as children. And we have the Mayo Clinic finding this "....Individuals who engage in homosexual pedophilia were more likely to have been abused than individuals..the “abused abusers phenomena”[/B] occurs: identification with the aggressor, in which the abused child is trying to gain a new identity by becoming the abuser; an imprinted sexual arousal pattern established by early abuse; early abuse leading to hypersexual behavior; or a form of social learning
took place..."

Part of the Amicus Brief will include the science and field of artificial insemination in zoos and on production farms. Handlers and researchers have found it to be undeniably true and a form of daily practice that you can use classical conditioning to permanently imprint a completely foreign form of sexual arousal in male stud animals, across the entire gamut of mammals and even some birds and reptiles. It will include the discussion of how the successful trial and error in research has found that if you get an animal on the verge of puberty, you can "train" his innate urges to mount and thrust in any direction you like. It only takes a couple of reinforcing epidsodes with the paired stimuli to cause a permanent arousal response to the new stimuli. The animal is re-routed to become excited at [literally, fill in the blank]. He has a new "orientation" that to him must surely feel as innate as breathing. But is not.

And this so completely, so perfectly and so wholly explains the entire gamut of human sexual orientations [aka "fetishes"] from homosexuality to necrophilia and everywhere inbetween that when it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...well ...you know the rest.

Part of the training of stud animals includes using the presence of female pheremones to initially stimulate the male to mount and thrust. She doesn't even have to be present. Neither would a human female. And after the stud is trained to mount a stuffed dummy, or another male [as with cattle] or [fill in the blank], he associates the new mounting objects as "female" and is thereafter permanently aroused by them..

All it takes is a few reinforcing episodes. But you can read all the fine details of this later in the Amicus Brief.

Your very dinner tonight if it includes beef or pork, is the tangible result of the fact that your premise and "the majority of the scientfic community" [outside the DAILY PRACTICE of those working the AI field in zoos and agriculture] is false.

Like I said, go back and do your homework. I have.

 

There is no proof gamblers are born that way,

It should be the court, otherwise we bow down to mob rule.

behaviours aren't protected, anyway. I'm not sure where you're going with this?

 

Silhouette this thread is not about the causes of homosexuality or pedophilia.

Stick to the topic please.

 

Once again,what does paedophilia have to do with sexual orientation?

That's because it isn't possible to "cure" sexual orientation.

Those people who claim they can do so are taking money under false pretences.

What a load of rubbish.

As a heterosexual person, I know that no amount therapy will make me find women sexually desirable.

That is the bottom line.

 

The topic is gay marraige and the ramifications from that. That is implied in the Prop 8 legal battle. If gays are allowed to marry they are simultaneously allowed to adopt at-risk orphans without any screening. Since there is evidence, via the CDC report on gay men having an epidemic of having been molested as boys...and the Mayo Clinic saying that these victims display "the abused-abuser" syndrome, pedophilia is a fair topic as related to gay marraige.

Just as there is no proof that homosexuals are born that way.

Are you calling the democratic regulation of self-governance "mob rule"? So voting to you is a form of rioting?

If gays get a "class" status inadvertently or purposefully assigned to them via this litigation process, then behaviors will have gained a precedent towards "class protection". Where I'm going with this is hopefully causing you and others to think ahead to where granting behaviors "class" status might lead... I argue it is a legal quagmire and a nightmare that would include not being able to enforce certain codes in the penal system...as well as other legal nightmares..

Sexual orientation is not only learned, it can be molded and trained. All mammals, some reptiles and avians even can be trained to sexually-orient towards any paired stimulus if gotten at the threshold of puberty. After a few reinforcing sessions, the animal or human will become aroused at the new stimuli and will "feel" like it was "born that way". If you've had meat today, chances are excellent that it was a result of the proof ot this being an indisputable fact, since the agriculture industry relies very heavily on prize stud animals and their progeny. None of it would be possible without being able to train on a daily basis, a new sexual orientation in stud animals.

 

It is considered a new sexual orientation in Psychiatric circles. Ususally used to argue that a man who moleests little boys, isnt a homosexual, hes a pedophile.

 

If you want to file an amicus brief based on all the "evidence" you have collated there's absolutely nothing to stop you doing that.

 

Except that the CDC and Mayo Clinic's reports combined show a definitive link between homosexuality and the predisposition to molest.

And if that wasn't enough, you can review the fact that gays have embraced a publicly-admitted and known pedophile [Harvey Milk] as the "gay hero ambassador", the "Mayor of Castro", have dedicated a holiday to him in California and mandate kids in elementary school to learn about him as a 'person to emulate'.

And if that also wasn't enough to establish the link, visit the linguistical heritage of the gay community. It is RIFE with terms referring fondly to having sex with children.

 

I used to raise quarter-horse 'paints'...My stallion was trained to mount a 'phantom' for sperm collection using mare-in-heat "fluid" and from then on he would eagerly mount the phantom sans that mare fluid. I also noticed that, after the training, he made attempts to mount geldings. Apparently his whole sexual identity was compromised.