Fill in the blank: " It's okay to kill your baby when... "

No, I just don't have YOUR moral viewpoint on it, so you think that I'm not getting it when in actuality I'm just disagreeing with you and questioning why your own personal morality has to apply to everyone.

 

Not at all. I'm saying you don't understand the purpose of science if you think that science says anything about right and wrong.

 

Science does say that, but it doesn't say what that means in abstract terms. You're applying your own meaning to it and you expect everyone to adopt that meaning or you label them immoral.

 

Applying your own meaning to "science" or the bible always reminds me of a quote from Robert Heinlein

http://atheism.about.com/library/quotes/bl_q_RHeinlein.htm

 

Two reminders. One - most conceptions end in spontaneous abortion. I don't know what you want to make of that, but I assume it means that abortion is a normal process, one that science can describe and produce. Two - you have arrived at a definition of human life. You have made a choice. It would be equally logical to place the beginning at the beating of a heart, traceable brain waves, or any number of other possibilities. You make your choice. I'll make mine. Of course, you will state that your choice is the correct one. Why is that? Your superior intelligence? A conversation you had with a superior being? What exactly? At some point, the same decision is going to have to be made at the other end of existence. When is it proper to terminate heroic efforts to maintain life in the terminally ill? I watched my mother die of Alzheimer's. She was dead as a recognizable person much before her body gave out, and, before she reached that stage, she asked that she not be allowed to arrive there. Was she right or the law that required the maintenance of a vegetable? These are difficult, individual questions. I hate that there are those who, in their absolute certainty of their correctness, are willing to try to enforce their personal beliefs on the rest of us.

 

Well 1st 4 seem ok i thick 5 might be ok to but im uncomfortable about it because after leaving the womb at some point a human becomes a person

 

I kind of thought that .. the post was more directed at mouse who keeps making the same argument over and over again dispite having this argument disproved umteen times.

 

There is nothing but opinion on the Princeton site. (Opinion from people who do not have a clue)

You can tell because "the why" is not given for any of the arguments posted on that site.

Pick your favorite argument from the site and I will demonstrate if you like ... or .. we do not even have to debate the sillyness posted on that site.

All one needs do is grant that there are opposing viewpoints.

I cant find any subject matter experts ( Biologists in a relevent field of Biology) that support the opinions posted on the Princeton site .. but even if there was one or two out there.. all we would be left with is "Experts disagree".

In the case where "experts disagree" .. this means that there is no "agreement" that the zygote is "a human" .. we are basically left with "I dont know"

If we value the Constitutional rights of a woman to her own body .. Liberty .. persuit of happiness .. and that stuff.

Then we can not, in good conscience, logic, and by the rule of law .. trump these rights on the basis of "I dont know"

 

Egg and sperm are "human life" .. every human cell is "human life"

So what ? What is your point here.

 

Here, let me help you pro-choicers:

It's okay to kill your baby when...

1. you don't want it anymore
2. you think your pregnant belly makes you look fat
3. summer is coming and you need to fit into that bikini
4. you want to assert your female rights
5. you are afraid the pregnancy might leave stretch marks, and don't want to take the trouble of rubbing cocoa butter on your abdomen every day
6. you don't think you should be punished because you had no idea your sexual partner not wearing a condom could lead to your pregnancy
7. you feel it would probably be too much trouble to adopt, or too shameful to just drop your baby off at a hospital and drive away

 

Go ahead, flaunt your misogyny. THAT will help your case.

 

Lie Much, I assume you know that is a Sin.

 

Apart from an inherent tendency to misogyny among some American males on the internet - is there ANy foundation for these accusations?

 

There is no such thing as an unborn baby. The term baby refers to an infant and an infant is a child between birth and one year old. After one year old the child becomes a toddler for the next year or two.

 

There is when your purpose is to paint a picture of a born cooing baby being the exact same thing as a fetus in the womb and then using that false comparison to attack pro-choice policies.

 

Thank you for being honest and admitting it. I suspected this much. If you believe it's okay to abort your fetus at any point in the pregnancy, it only follows that it should be okay to abort the fetus outside the womb soon after it's been born. After all, there's not really much difference between a fetus 1 week before being born and 1 week after.

Some other pro-choicers, however, seem to try to assert the position that the mere act of passing through the birth canal suddenly confers some magical transformation into a human being.

 

You're ignoring what the word "abortion" means, which is termination of a PREGNANCY. No pregnancy, no abortion, simple, isn't it?
Actually, there's a lot of difference between a fetus 1 week before being born and 1 week after. And there's certainly a lot of difference to the woman who was pregnant one week and is not pregnant the following week.

http://eileen.undonet.com/Main/7_R_Eile/BirthChange.htm

Birth involves far more immediate, dramatic physiological change in the fetus than merely where the nutrients and oxygen come from. These profound changes are a reason that I consider birth to be an 'initiation' to air-breathing 'personhood.' Do you have any idea of the massive changes necessary to accomplish receiving oxygen from the atmosphere? Let me just address circulation a bit, and leave the even more profound respiratory and digestive changes for another time... I think you'll regard birth as even more miraculous when you understand what an amazing physiological event it is, and what awesome changes happen at that moment!....

So, I'd appreciate if we didn't say that the immediate newborn and term fetus are almost identical, because they just aren't. The digestive changes alone would be ten times the length of this very basic circulatory primer, and the respiratory chemistry changes at the instant of birth could fill a book.

 

A "fetus" does not actually exist outside of the womb. Why do anti-abortionists continue to resort to re-inventing the English language in putting forth their arguments? If they have a ligitimate argument then they should present it but changing the definitions of "fetus" and "baby" and "murder" don't represent a ligitimate argument.

We can also note that the vasts majority of abortions don't even relate to a fetus that could live outside the womb as a baby. As rare as these abortions are they can only be authorized based upon a medical necessity to preserve the life or health of the woman. Do anti-abortionists actually advocate that the woman and fetus should both be allowed to die because the abortion should be prohibited in these very rare cases? That is an absurd proposition by any standard.

 

I can't believe you are actually trying to argue this point.

The fetus can't breathe in the womb because — SURPRISE ! — there's NO AIR inside the uterus!!

 

Take it out and it still can't breathe....why is that? It's because its body parts can't function that way. That's one of the "profound, dramatic, massive" changes necessary to be an air-breathing person, and fetus body just isn't ready to make those changes. So a fetus is NOT just like a newborn. NOT.

 

There is a huge glaring obvious difference and not seeing it is completely intentional on your part. It's basically denial.

And no, passing through the birth canal does not make you a human being, it makes you a person. Those two terms have different meanings and different implications. This is also something I know you understand, and are confusing your disagreement(also likely intentional) with non-existence.

 

I think it's silly, silly and dishonest, how "pro lifers" pretend that in most abortions the baby is practically ready to jump out of the womb.
The majority of abortions are done much earlier. And while I feel uncomfortable with late-term abortions I know that they're comparatively rare and almost always necessary.