Gay Teen Suicide: A Range of Causes

Well, we might if they were known to in fact be very ambidextrous, or if they lived their first 35 years of life as exclusively right handed, and then switch to mostly left handed, but still occasionally preferring being right handed.

 

People don't 'switch' sexual-orientations on a whim. In fact, they generally don't switch at all.

 

How do you know? I've known men who have been attracted to blondes, or redheads or thin or fat women and suddenly change their mind. Usually it's from an unpleasant experience with the formerly desired object..or a series of them to really ground the lesson home. That's called aversive conditioning. And it really does happen. It's not a switch from gender preference but it is in the same light as that. It suggests that someone can be trained or self-train themselves so prefer a certain stimuli to become aroused, only then later to become disgusted with that arousal and train somewhere else.

And Anne Heche keeps rearing her head when this topic comes up. Everyone was sure she was a lesbian; only now she prefers men. It's the darndest thing.

And if you were a gay teen who suddenly wanted to be with the opposite gender [for whatever reason], you may not access therapy to adjust to real pressure not to do so from the gay community. You see it here in spades. Even the topic of switching from gay to straight is met with ridicule, or even outright animosity. I can only imagine the rejection, the ridicule and psychological trauma of suddenly announcing you were going straight to your formerly "supportive" gay friends. You'd be Anne-Heched right out of the room.

 

Science AND modern research... plus having been gay ALL OF MY LIFE.

There are typically 'exceptions', but overall... PEOPLE DO NOT SWITCH SEXUAL-ORIENTATIONS.

Say what you 'want'... that is the way it is.

 

What science and modern research? The food industry and ranching experts and zoological biologists are all training orientations in mammals for artificial insemination collection. If you had meat today, chances are you ate the proof that sexual orientation can be trained, especially if the animal was gotten young enough, "tampered with" at an impressionable age.

 

I used to breed horses. If you have a good stallion you can 'collect' and sell his semen. You do it with a 'phantom' (fake mare butt). A stallion can be trained to 'donate' his semen without even seeing a mare in heat. You gotta train 'em young though.

 

In both the case of which hand they use and which sex they have sexual relations with, I was referring to their actual behavior, and not some "orientation" you believe they were born with, in spite of their actual behavior.

 

That "orientation" you seem to think is some trivial point... is key to understanding what they hell you're talking about.

Where do you think the "behavior" comes from?

 

The behavior comes from the orientation, which can be trained in any direction. You don't understand classical conditioning do you? It is where you "orient" an animal to behave in a chosen fashion [or happenstance; animals can train themselves accidentally through repetition/reward to a given stimuli]. In the case of artificial insemination, animals are purposefully selected at an impressionable age and tampered with so that their normal sexual drive to the opposite gender is grafted onto a new stimulus/stimuli.

What came first was a natural drive to procreate. At a young enough age, the animals [across all mammalian species] can become habitually trained to excite at any diversion one desires them to.

Homo sapiens can be no different. If a man molests a young boy and pairs his first several orgasms [reward] with that stimulus [another male], we can expect that boy to gravitate from that threshold-crossed to seek males out for sexual release. In fact, animal handlers would see that scenario and expect that boy to gravitate towards "gay" sex. They'd bank on it in fact.

If that boy's higher cognitive thinking caused him anxiety at this new compulsion, say he wanted a family like his father had, and even fell in love with a woman and wanted to express himself sexually with her but still felt oddly attracted to men instead, that teen/adult would be expected to have angst surrounding that. And if the angst became great enough, the gay culture has strongarmed the psychology-professionals to disallow that teen any therapy that would reverse the original tampering.

And that's patently wrong. It's unethical.

 

That is a generally erroneous and clearly uneducated view. That foolishness isn't even worth addressing here in 2011.

Get real.

If one's sexual-orientation could be 'set' manually/deliberately... then doing just that, WOULD already be common or widespread in this world.

 

"Michael and Tonya Hartsell of Wilmington, N.C., never expected to be confronted with the issue of homosexuality when they sat down with their seven-year-old daughter to read the book she had brought home from the Rachel Freeman Elementary School library. But just a few pages into King & King, the Hartsells discovered that their first grader had unknowingly picked out a fairy tale about a homosexual prince who marries another prince"

http://www.ncfamily.org/PolicyPapers/Findings 0412-HomosexualEd.pdf

"Safe schools initiatives are one of the most effective yet subtle tactics being used to promote homosexuality in the classroom. They are part of a cunning strategy by homosexual activists to convince educators that gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender (GLBT) students are disproportionately abused, harassed and subjected to discrimination by their classmates and some teachers on a daily basis."

And...

"For years, homosexual activists have insisted they are not interested in recruiting youngsters, but just want society to accept them and their lifestyle. Now, their own actions show that they are after young children, as Provincetown, Massachusetts, long a haven for homosexuals, votes to begin homosexual education to preschoolers!"

http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1113.cfm

More info on the subject of conditioning

http://www.ncfpc.org/specialhomosexual.html

Looks like the homosexual agenda is to start early...preschool. It makes 'sense' for homosexuals to embark on 'educating' children because they themselves cannot create more of their own. All childbirth is heterosexual. Homosexuals are not 'born' they are made. There may be some hormonal deficiency in a few but babies are either male or female...there is no other sex. The fact that homosexuals have to institute indoctrination programs is pretty much proof that homosexuals are made not born.

 

Blah-blah!! What in the world does the above post, have to do with "Gay Teen Suicide"?

 

Forcing homosexuality on young children can cause severe mental problems because human beings are NOT homosexual in nature. I can see a young child getting very confused when given curriculum extolling the virtues of homosexuality.

 

Exactly. "Mommy, where do babies come from?" "Well dear, they come from when two people have sex." "But mommy, Jimmy's two daddies have sex. Can they have babies?" "No dear, two men cannot make babies together." "Then why do they have sex?"

Actually, gays can create more of their own precisely by accessing children at a young age. This is the crux of point. Child molesting starts in the child's mind first. The predator "sells" his tweak on the doorstep before he ever nudges through the door. The first stage of pedophilia is to gain the confidence of the adults in charge of the child [schools, teachers, parents], usually by a seductive or "innocent" plea [like claiming disproportionate bullying of gays in school..a play on sympathy] then the next stage is to get inside the minds of kids [by making them read stories about gay people and introducing pro-gay propaganda in schools]. Talk to law enforcement detectives who specialize in reining in pedophiles.

What does this have to do with gay teen suicide? If a gay teen is that way from being "tampered with" at a crucial young age, and then later comes to realize the damage that has been done...and may not be allowed to access reparative therapy, it isn't hard to imagine a suicidal condition arising from that angst.

 

That's just crazy-talk.

 

Is it? The Mayo Clinic tends to disagree. In this 2007 publication, the fact that sexual orientation can be taught via social-learning is visited. Imagine outright instruction in schools at the earliest of ages that "gay is OK to be"? That would be like instructing kids that "bulimia is OK to have"....in the "interest of removing social stigmas for bulimics". It's madness to teach compulsion. Homo sapiens are the most predisposed of all creatures to form their personality from environmental coercion or pressures..

Unless that psychiatric help entails rooting out unwanted homosexual attraction imprinted via these social-learning episodes as identified in the "abused-abusers" cycle outlined above. Then you can have your license taken away.

So suicidal gay teens struggling with having been molested as kids may not access therapy to "take away the root of the problem". And we wonder why they continue to kill themselves..

Interesting that social-learning can teach the exact preference or "orientation" for the same-aged and gendered kids as they were chosen by their abusers. This strongly corroborates with learned-orientation.

Yep. This is the same thing livestock people have found once an orientation is trained and fixated in the various species they work with. When they want to train a stud in a different direction, they employ aversion-conditioning where the old orientation is paired with negative rewards and the new desired orientation is met with positive rewards. It takes more time the older and more concreted the animal is in it's behavioral ruts but with patience much success has been found.

Wow. Castration or chemical castration is par for the course but aversion therapy is "controversial" and disallowed? That is a direct fallout of the 1973 APA convention coup by gay militants. I wonder if given the choice, how many men would choose being castrated over receiving reparative therapy to change their orientation?

 

How YOU tend to interpret the data you submit, it subject to great scrutiny and skepticism. Please, accept that.

ABUSER do abuse in various ways; some abusers are straight... others a gay.
Don't try to make this a "gay is bad" thing.

There is NO WONDER (in my view) why gay teens don't seek and don't get as much help as straight teens. That is the real topic.

No, it doesn't. Your assumptions from the data you present, is simply ludicrous and borders upon being laughable.

So you believe. You really aren't dealing with the issue at hand... it's more like what some QUACK doctor who believes he/she SHOULD have the right to practice would do.

No one should take your compartmentalized and overly-biased interpretation of the data you present as "gospel". I would encourage them to research credible data related to this topic for themselves, indeed.

Yeah, right. Training an animal to react or react/respond to stimulus, isn't even close to sexual-orientation in a human child or adult. What are you trying to say, beyond the craziness in your ideas? One can only wonder. (Hmmm...)

Due to VERIFIABLE past results, gay aversion therapy is essentially rejected by modern psychotherapists. That rejection isn't based upon mere "guessing" about data... as you seem to like doing.

How many STRAIGHT men would ever CHOOSE to be "gay"? (It's a silly question... but it's just as fun to think about as the silly one you just proposed.)

 

Let's take two quotes side by side to illustrate an issue I have with normalizing gay sex in schools. Bear in mind that pedophiles first "get in the head" of their targets before they molest:

From the 2007 Mayo Clinic publication in my last post:

That reflects the other numbers from the studies I quoted on previous threads. Ask me to repost them and I will. And those numbers are astonishing.

Now read the findings from the 2005 Clinical Psychiatry News

How stupid would we have to be to skip the vital step of understanding what's going on in the above issues and go straight to teaching little kids in school that "gay is OK"?

The numbers are compelling and cannot be ignored. The psychiatrists were so profoundly moved by those numbers that they labelled it "an epidemic". Medical professionals move very slowly, especially in the mental health field in calling anything an "epidemic". So when they do, you can rest assured there's a problem afoot...a BIG one.

A law enforcment agency charged with protecting children from predators would have his eyebrows go through the cap of his hat at seeing these figures and then hearing gays want to teach kids that "gay is OK" at very young ages in school...impressionable ages..."the younger the better" say gay-advocates siezing the [currently] untreatable epidemic among gay teens of suicide to thrust potentially the very causal agent of their angst to prime new generations to suffer thusly.

Houston, we have a problem....

 

Please, stop with he pseudo-academics. You are picking and choosing data to support your conclusions (opinions). Many of us have done that, but I don't see why anyone would trust what you're saying, over Google'ing the topic and reviewing reliable data/information for themselves.

It's obvious that you are anti-homosexual and seek to associate homosexuality with pedophilia. In essence, that is ludicrous and the conclusions of virtually and 'credible' studies, have clearly proven you premise to be erroneous; yet you persist in propagating something that is very likely UNTRUE.

Please, think about what you're claiming.

 

First thing you have to understand is pedophilia is it's not like normal attraction. Pedophiles can be heterosexual in the sense that they are attracted to opposite sexed adults, but then be attracted to children who are of the same sex and/or opposite sex.

You conveniently left out the next sentence in that quotation: This finding does not imply that homosexuals are more likely to molest children, just that a larger percentage of pedophiles are homosexual or bisexual in orientation to children.

Again, there is a distinction between being sexual oriented toward a same-sex child and being an actual homosexual.

You could make this same argument about black people. Their crime rate, drug use rate, HIV rate, etc. is much higher than with white people. That doesn't mean that being black isn't OK. It just means there are issues within the community due to the circumstances that more of them are going to face than white people, that need to be sorted out. But that doesn't make being black is inherently bad. It's sociological, not biological. The same with Native Americans, they have a much higher rate of alcoholism and domestic abuse, again, it's not because of who they are but circumstances surrounding them.

The reason why drug use and all the rest of it is higher in the gay community is because lots of gay people still have a harder time in society. There is also, among gay men, a much more prominent social scene than there is in the straight community, and with that you're going to get a lot more drinking and drugs as well. We make society better for gay people and try to get more education/awareness to gay people within the community, then we'll see those numbers go down.

 

Amen to all that you said!

 

Yes, Amen to distorting the gist of those studies in favor of promoting gay propaganda in schools!

The crucial fact when considering nuanced psycho-social influences as between actual races of people vs those who loosely orbit around compulsive avoidance of normal sexual behavior that can lead to reproduction, is that the "gay" culture revolves around BEHAVIOR. This is an important distinction to make. Let's look at what the folks from the Mayo Clinic said in 2007 again about psycho-social influences:

In these instances, the "community" is much smaller. It consists of a pedophile and his target in a bedroom, bathroom, outbuilding or wooded area, van etc. But the influence is no-less felt. The child statistically will be trained to prefer the type of sex that was done to him in that environment, to the same type of profile as he was "a 7 year old male having sex with an adult male" [for example]. He will prefer that same scenario when he grows up.

That is nothing less than trained homosexuality and trained pedophila.

Getting back to paraphilias and what we know about them; they seem to run the spectrum from any literal possiblity. With such a wide variation in presentation, including homophilia [compulsive same-gendered attraction], Occam's Razor suggests we look for a simple answer to describe what's going on. And that simple answer is what ag scientists already know: you can train sexual orientation in mammals across species to become compulsively aroused to any stimulus you pair with the first few orgasms.

There it is. Easy, simple, in practice and explaining the entire phenomena of sexual compulsive behavior from A-Z.

Here's what the Mayo folks said about how researchers classify pedophiles. It differs from your statement:

I think I'll stick with the experts on this one.. http://www.drrichardhall.com/Articles/pedophiles.pdf

Pedophlies often "take cover" under a marriage. And one of the hallmarks of that marriage is 'dead bed' with their spouse, or a platonic relationship. Their preference, if predating boys, is homosexual. Their preference, if predating girls, is heterosexual. That two abnormal [cannot result in reproduction] sexual orientations present in one individual is not unheard of at all. If a man is having sex with boys, he suffers from BOTH homophlia and pedophilia. And statistics tell us he was most likely molested at an age of kids he then is attracted to. Saying this cannot be extrapolated to the same gender also is really reaching. If the "abused-abuser" syndrome is that pinpoint accurate as to causing cumpulsion in the adult victim to then target the same aged kids as he was when molested, one can hang one's hat that that pinpoint accuracy in compulsion also extends to the gender preference.

 

You're just vilifying homosexual people; that's what's coming out of your words.

 

12 Election Results will climb onto list .

 

You're from California Gator. Are you referring to Prop 8 type Measures

Johnny C, you are vilifying scientists and healthcare professionals who know more than you do about the subject. They've done the studies and seen the compelling results. You're engaging in a religious stance. You literally have a faith-based denial system that compels you to reject even real and stark facts.

Just like the christian who, in spite of fossil evidence and mountains of data to the contrary, still insisting that the earth is only 6,000 years old. You, in the face of mountains of data, cling fiercely to the slippery notion that gays aren't made, they are "born that way" and that teaching gay propaganda to kids is "psychologically benign" [paraphrased].

Like I said, it may in fact not only not be benign, but may itself be the seed of the angst that many gay teens are chosing to end their lives over...that and the fact that once inducted into a gay compulsion/lifestyle, a gay teen may not ever find help of a therapist to erase that compulsion foisted on him as a child.