Gaza myths and facts: what American Jewish leaders won't tell you

Tolerate is one thing. Create and actively abet is quite another. what co-operation did Israel have with yassin? Was that before the creation of Hamas, during or after? Is the establishment of the first post secondary institution in gaza a form of supporting hamas in your eyes?

What form did this co-operation take?
What direct role did Israel play in the creation of Hamas more than supplying the Islamists with an appropriate enemy?

So far there isn't a shred of evidence presented, only opinion and hearsay. Where the hell is the evidence of this?

Not to put too fine a point on it, but when I looked up avner cohen gazan religious affairs I got the same wall street story word for word on dozens of sites. (not to be confused with Dr. Avner Cohen the historian).

this seems to be one of those stories that propagates throughout the web, but has no substance or reference to anything other than an individuals unsubstantiated statements.

 

Sabeel lobbied hard to prevent the formation of Hamas. Do you know who they are?

 

Israel "Looked favorably" on Hamas building "schools, clinics, library, kindergarten?" This is the total amount of 'support' Israel gave? I thought you said they "supported the development of Hamas?"

 

Yes I know who they are.

Please explain to me how they could have lobbied hard to prevent the formation of Hamas, when Hamas was founded in 1987 and Sabeel in 1989?

 

The entities that came to be Sabeel existed in 1987 and they pushed hard to prevent the formation of Hamas, but Hamas was recruiting from the meanest and most poverty stricken of the refugee camps.

 

Oh? so it wasn't the Sabeel. Okay, can you provide a reference to this vociferous resistence?
Not that I would be surprised that a liberation christian organization would object to Islamists arriving on the scene. After all, they had a pretty good idea who the Muslim Brotherhood was.

 

Hamas history tied to Israel

By Richard Sale
UPI Terrorism Correspondent




extract :

"Israel and Hamas may currently be locked in deadly combat, but, according to several current and former U.S. intelligence officials, beginning in the late 1970s, Tel Aviv gave direct and indirect financial aid to Hamas over a period of years.

Israel "aided Hamas directly -- the Israelis wanted to use it as a counterbalance to the PLO (Palestinian Liberation Organization)," said Tony Cordesman, Middle East analyst for the Center for Strategic Studies.

Israel's support for Hamas "was a direct attempt to divide and dilute support for a strong, secular PLO by using a competing religious alternative," said a former senior CIA official.

According to documents United Press International obtained from the Israel-based Institute for Counter Terrorism, Hamas evolved from cells of the Muslim Brotherhood, founded in Egypt in 1928. Islamic movements in Israel and Palestine were "weak and dormant" until after the 1967 Six Day War in which Israel scored a stunning victory over its Arab enemies.

After 1967, a great part of the success of the Hamas/Muslim Brotherhood was due to their activities among the refugees of the Gaza Strip. The cornerstone of the Islamic movements success was an impressive social, religious, educational and cultural infrastructure, called Da'wah, that worked to ease the hardship of large numbers of Palestinian refugees, confined to camps, and many who were living on the edge.

"Social influence grew into political influence," first in the Gaza Strip, then on the West Bank, said an administration official who spoke on condition of anonymity.

According to ICT papers, Hamas was legally registered in Israel in 1978 by Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, the movement's spiritual leader, as an Islamic Association by the name Al-Mujamma al Islami, which widened its base of supporters and sympathizers by religious propaganda and social work.

According to U.S. administration officials, funds for the movement came from the oil-producing states and directly and indirectly from Israel. The PLO was secular and leftist and promoted Palestinian nationalism. Hamas wanted to set up a transnational state under the rule of Islam, much like Khomeini's Iran.

What took Israeli leaders by surprise was the way the Islamic movements began to surge after the Iranian revolution, after armed resistance to Israel sprang up in southern Lebanon vis-�-vis the Hezbollah, backed by Iran, these sources said.

"Nothing provides the energy for imitation as much as success," commented one administration expert.

A further factor of Hamas' growth was the fact the PLO moved its base of operations to Beirut in the '80s, leaving the Islamic organization to grow in influence in the Occupied Territories "as the court of last resort," he said


read much more here :

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10456.htm


....

 

Dude, it's generally accepted history. They don't really need sources for what everyone knows to be true. It would be like asking for a source to prove gravity exists. Leftist, rightist and centrist publications all agree on the same facts. That you don't like those facts is unfortunate, but it doesn't stop them from being facts.

 

This makes absolute sense. That is why I am seeing dust instead of the remains of people's homes. The end of the cease fire with everyone willing to believe it was Hamas when they have absolutely no evidence of this is also interesting. It allowed Israel out of a tight spot where the UN was coming straight out with Israel's war crimes against women and children and civilian infrastructure, something even the US was shamed into telling Israel was indefensible - all in a couple of hours changed into more mass murder and destruction of civilian infrastructure with Obama showing either his lack of integrity or fear of the pro Israeli crew in the US saying it was Hamas. There is no evidence as to who it was but it has given Israel a free hand to carry on her war crimes and to carry on taking away another people's small living space. I trust the world is soon going to stop and severely punish this inhumanity.

 

still no "Jew-only" roads in the West Bank.

all Israeli citizens are welcome to use those roads, be they Jew, Muslim, Christian, or non-religious.

 

Israeli citizenship is conditional and not available to all.

 

American citizenship is also conditional. So what.

 

No its not.. If you are born on US soil, you are a US citizen with one exception... If your parents are foreign diplomats, you are not a citizen.

 

wow. world class response.

Unsubstantiated "common knowledge" that Everybody knows.

The metaphorical use of asking for a source of evidence for one of the four fundamental forces of the universe in asking for a source of evidence of to substantiate what is so far nothing but a viscious rumour is truly poetic overreach.

 

If you are a palestinian born in Lebannon or Syria or Jordan most other places the UNWRA operates, you are specifically NOT a citizen of those countries.

 

For the most part they still want to return to their ancestral homes.. If you'd seen the West bank before 1967, you'd know why..

They don't want to renounce their claim to their homeland.. and why should they?

Remember the Jews were refugees...seeking sanctuary.. They chose to demand Palestine, Jordan, parts of Lebanon and Syria.. and attempt to squeeze out the natives..

 

Because they have no choice?

Funny how the jews would think that the best place for them to be is where their WORD OF GOD was written. Apart from that and some ancient archeology its obvious the jews were simply cherry picking a good piece of real estate.

 

The inheritance of world Jewry, their ancient homeland etc., is not the patrimony of any Arab.
The Arab found an empty lot and squatted there... this is not enough to reward any opportunist with a deed on the Land of the Jews!!!

 

I am stuck on "American Jewish Leaders". I've never met one. Are they leading American Jews somewhere? Googling hasn't helped me find out who they are. The majority of American Jews seem to be pro-Obama, which means they have to sacrifice or be quiet regarding his animosity against Israel....Please explain further....American Jewish Leaders.

 

Still looking for those American Jewish Leaders that are convincing us that a two state solution won't work. But according to this article---Its a pretty micro piece of American Jews that think that. So what leaders is this writer talking about?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ends-in-how-american-jews-think-about-israel/

 

They wrote the book if you recall... The purpose of the OT was to give the Jewish people a history which they wanted after the Babylonian exile.. and they wrote lots of laws and rituals that kept them apart. Even Ezra told them they had to divorce their foreign wives. Up until then, they married Canaanites, Egyptians etc........

 

Try the Jay Street Jews.. Bibi rails against them.

Most people... Jewish or not think its too late for a 2 state solution since Israel has built up the West Bank and recruited so many settlers.

 

The problem is that Ghaza was previously Egyptian territory. Even american jewish leaders typically fail to mention this. I don't know why. Israel is a legitimate state, even if people have problems with Israeli policy (I don't) when it comes to ghaza, they need to realize that Israel is a country, a middle eastern country. Its just not arab. Most of the world holds pan-arabist views, the idea of a hebrew state just doesn't compute in their minds. I think it threatens most americans' worldview.

 

Margot, do you think he made up the part about the American Jewish leaders ? Or do you think he was talking about leaders of the Orthodox Jews that make up only....10% of all Jews here in the U.S. I'm curious why this "thinking" guy brought up American Jewish Leaders as if they are to be feared. 62% of all Jews believe in a two state solution. Only 50% of Americans over all do.

Do you think he believes the zionists have taken over?