Germany is cutting solar-power subsidies because they are expensive and inefficient

So what do you do in winter? Or at night? Or a cloudy day. Or a cloudy week? Where do you get your electricity while the solar plant is losing you money?

 

From YOUR article...

Please read your articles before posting. It avoids pointless arguments.

 

Der spiegels take on the subject..

Yeah the climate does influence how effective solar cells are...

 

That is the point of this thread, thanks for putting into words more eloquently than I could.

Germany's economy isn't that much better off than our own and their Government wasted $130 billion for a climate-change policy that has no impact on global warming. There needs to be a major revolt in that country. Yet, Obama and the Democrats in Congress seem bent on leading us down that very same road. November is coming, can you afford an additional $260 or more a year for electricity? The Democrats will take us there if WE let 'em.

 

You seem to have forgotten the link to the source, please post it.

 

Hate to keep pointing this out but the pattern of energy consumption is different for California than it is for Germany. Cool overcast winter nights are not the time of peak energy consumption in Cali. The peak time for energy consumption is the middle of a long hot clear summer day. Which is perfect for collecting solar energy. People that know anything about electrical grids know it is the PEAK demand that wreaks havoc. The nice thing about solar in the Southwest USA is it revs up to 100% of it's capacity right when you need it most. In Germany where your main concern isn't running a million A/Cs at noon in July it doesn't really work out so well.

When do you usually hear about rolling black outs in Cali? You guessed it... Long hot sunny summer days. What works best during long hot summer days?

 

Read your own link. It mentions lack of sunshine multiple times.

 

I already posted the chart on how much sunless or little sun days the south west has compared to your chart. So solar would be only marginally better here than there, I'm missing your point.

 

Your chart was a cherry picked chart for the dimmest month of the year where as my charts were for annual averages. So no Professor we are not fooled by your cherry picked nonsense. The fact that you will not quote the pertinent parts of your own article and you will not look at objective ANNUAL data tells me you have no case. Another garbage thread.

 

You are correct, I missed that. However, you missed this part.

You can try to polish that turd all you want, however, solar will fail here just as sure as it is in Germany. Go ahead and try with all the private investors you want, just leave the taxpayers money out of that boondoggle.

 

My apologies, a grievous oversight to be sure.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,809439,00.html

 

I am saying it again. The peak electricity usage may be at night in GERMANY during the winter but most people with common sense that dare to speak of these matters at least know that peak energy consumption in the Southwest United States follows a totally different pattern due to climate and seasonal patterns. This should be obvious.

Simple question.

When is peak energy consumption in Cali? Day or night? Winter or Summer? Answer those question, Professor, and you will know why you are totally WRONG.

 

I agree with that, but the same hindrances still apply so you have no point.

 

Thank you so much for that link! It's better than I expected.

 

Lack of sun in Cali in July?! Have you been to Cali?

 

The problem is not the idea, but the economic viability, distribution systems, and being reliable for distence travel. I agree with reducing pollution, and I think we have made great strides in this regard. It is partisan because O'Bama picked a winner in the industry and it fell flat on its face in pile of political rubble because the industry has not made itself affordable, and low cost labor in China that has an undervalued currency makes trade deficits very large and competition nearly impossible. I blame NAFTA and the IMF for this. Science and technology holds many promises but so far few solutions.

 

If solar is so viable in California, why are two solar thermal plants in California (I posted not one but three threads on this earlier) sitting idle, in disrepair?

Coal-fired plants produce power at and in the winter.

I think we can all agree. Germany fornicated with the canine by investing so heavily in solar which inarguably cannot work in Germany?

 

Regardless of the differences in climate that exists between Germany and a small portion of the south west United Stares, Germany's climate is more in line with the bulk of the United States away from the SW. The below applies to both country's.

A costly and unnecessary dual electricity infrastructure, one we can ill afford in this Obamanomics economy with 1.7% GDP growth for all of 2011.

 

I never said it was "so viable in California." Your words not mine. What I said is years ago I decided to look at the viability of doing a solar installation on my parents' house. If became very obvious to me rather quickly that even though they live in an area of the United States that gets a lot more sun than Germany that it wouldn't be a viable option... even with subsidies due to not enough sunlight. After that I just waited until Germany's day of reckoning. Anyone that is surprised by this obviously doesn't know how to read a simple average annual sunshine graph. That is the first step in considering a solar install. If there is not enough sun then don't even bother.

 

Peak energy consumption is late afternoon and early evenings and early mornings. Neither or which are peak solar times.

So what do you do at night and on cloudy days and those peak times when the sun is not high in the horizon yet? What are you going to do when all those Californians start driving electric cars and they want to charge them at night when they are asleep?

Go out to Victorsville and Bakersfield and the high desert and tell me how many homes don't run AC at night.

Temperatures soar above 100 degrees across Southern California
September 7, 2011

And that's in September.

And long hot summer evenings when the sun don't shine when the solar sits there losing you money.

So where are you going to get your electricity then?

 

That is a lie.

The West and South West areas of the United States with substantially more sunlight than Germany form a huge land mass. You are talking conservatively Cali, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, West Texas, Utah, Colorado, etc.

Anyone that looks at this map and thinks it is a "small portion" is smoking some good stuff...



And I guarantee you although Louisiana oddly enough is not ideal for solar anyone that has been there and been to Germany would not say their climates are "similar."

Where do you guys get this bunk?

 

Peak usage in Cali does NOT occur after sunset. That is a lie.

 

Not this year, but many years since I've lived in Northern Ca. we can go for months on end without seeing the Sun.

 

average: 2. a typical amount, rate, degree, etc.; norm.

And sometimes there are volcanoes exploding in Washington State. But not usually in the average year.

 

Jebediah, these RW posters will not asquiesce to the facts. I credit Germany for giving it a try, good thing Thomas Edison did not have the mindset of these RWers.

The amount sunlight is a given and of course offers a greater advantage; I have vacationed in the Caribbean for snorkeling and diving, there at the hotels/homes, solar hot water heaters are ubiquitous and necessary.

These RWers have no idea how expensive it is transport electrical energy. By having solar energy exchanges in the desert, closer to the energy sinks, makes it even more economical. They haven't understood, or even tried, that basic engineering principle.