Germany is cutting solar-power subsidies because they are expensive and inefficient

ROFL, you just don't want to have to utter the fact that for the majority of the 24 hour period there is not enough sunlight or none at all.

Still just can't come out and say but have to resort to insults. And electricity can only be moved so far before the transmission loses add up. You are not going to power New York by using solar panels in California.

Which has nothing to do with my question to you. And we are talking solar generating PLANTS. At night or a cloudy day or even early morning or late afternoon the solar plants will not produce enough power to power your home where will you get your power?

 

It is completely stupid for anyone to think that Germans are going to be big advocates of solar power. Ever been to Germany? It rains half the time, and its cloudy the other half of the time. And then there's night to consider.

 

One has to wonder what Germany is going to do then. They just said last year they were going to do this

German government plans total nuclear shutdown by 2022 ...

www.dw-world.com/dw/article/0,,15117148,00.html


Public pressure to get rid of nuclear power has risen. The German government on Monday announced plans to completely phase out nuclear energy by 2022, ...

 

Last year when I decided to replace my old solar hot water heater,(Heated by hot water panels) I had to choose between the new solar panels and the new hybrid hot water heater, which helps heat the water with an electric operated heat pump. Considering cost and pay back, I chose the GE hybrid heat pump and I live in hot Arizona where the new solar panels would give maximum efficiency. But the pay back time just didn't make sense. A heat pump hot water heater can cost between $1,750.00 - $2,200.00 installed. A solar can cost between $2,500.00- $8,800.00 installed. The pay back on the heat pump is between 4-5 years, while the pay back on the solar is between 5-33 years. depending on model you buy. Annual savings on a solar can run between 19%-59%. The heat pump savings can run between 56%-59%, depending on model.

There was a rebate on both that cuts the cost some

 

You don't understand transmission loss do you?

Now on to net metering....

Why did this bill sit in a pigeon hole somewhere in the subcommittee on Energy and Air Quality in the Democrat controlled house in 2007?

 

Consumer Report says,

While some solar heaters save almost as much as hybrid electrics, most take far longer to pay for themselves.

Our results for hybrid electric water heaters reflect tests conducted in a 65° F temperature-controlled chamber and, for solar heaters, year-round tests outside our Yonkers, N.Y., headquarters. The figures below are based on the consumption of hot water by two to four people (80 to 85 gallons per day) compared with all-electric storage-tank heaters. How much you save in your home might differ based on climate and usage.

 

Then let the residents of California and Arizona pay for it themselves. State and municipal governments are capable of amassing billions in revenue - if Democrats weren't so obsessed with laundering money to their union allies in the public sector, maybe they'd have a "green" energy grid by now.

 

We need an "all of the above" energy policy, which could be achieved optimally with a free market. If state and local governments want to subsidize certain industries, then that's fine.

 

Oh!


So is that why when the left wing maggot heads want to tout the great success of solar power they always point to Germany and Scandinavia?


Is that why the California based solar companies are all going bankrupt?


Most people with a modicum of high school knowledge try to know what the (*)(*)(*)(*) they're talking about before posting bull(*)(*)(*)(*).

 

Then the power plants currently idle at night solar will have something to do.

Also, charging a car battery is a fantastic instantaneous-responding power-leveling resource. To the extent car owners will allow, the utility can charge the cars at full rate for those MOMENTS in time when there is lower use, and slow the charging rate when everyone turns on their bathroom lights and microwaves during the the football game half time.

Currently, the power companies have to guess at the peak power usage, go over by 5%, and simply waste the excess power that isn't used.

EVERY Kilowatt of that power is FREE power when electric cars and smart meters get popular.

Go out to Victorsville and Bakersfield and the high desert and tell me how many homes THERE EVEN ARE out there! Compared to the monster suburbs of the LA and Orange County, its the moon. Power drain is trivial.

There still is LOTS of sunshine in September! I guess you don't get out much. September 21 is only the Equinox, only halfway to minimum sunshine.

Solar panels don't cost ANYTHING once purchased, even when they aren't producing power.

You would give up SAVING money BEFORE the sun goes down because you can't save money AFTER it goes down?

That is when the off-peak power from the utility gets cheap because the businesses and plants have turned off.

 

The German government are trying their best to behave like adults. That's why they advocate for austerity and abandon demonstrable failures like the solar energy fantasy, the exact opposite of Democrats.

 

Dunno. You have to do as I did and look at the net metering legislation as it applies to where you are actually going to install your solar array (ie your STATE laws).

Errr... having multiple domestic and commercial solar installations in a community vs piping in 100% of you electrical needs over high voltage lines from far away actually reduces transmission loss. It's simply physics. How do you not know that? Home and business generation of electricity on smart grids is part of a concept called distributed generation. One of the key aims of distributed generation is to reduce transmission loss.

I think most physists that work in the solar field realize the sun sets at night. Please do what I have done and actually research this topic instead of just making idiotic posts. Solar installations work better in climates like the southwest US because power needs are lowest in the middle of the night and rise during the day. This works well for solar because it produces the most power when the sun is high in the sky. You need to look up the concept of a "peaker plant."

Please name for us which large utility runs all its generation sources besides solar and wind at 100% capacity 100% of the time. You have a lot to learn about our electrical consumption and grid.

 

Because (a) your assumption of savings in the "long run" (how long is that?) is impossible to verify or falsify and (b) because the common liberal definition of "pollution" usually includes CO2, otherwise known as "plant food".

In other words, I wouldn't do "it" because "it" is totally speculative and spurious, especially when you consider the amount of oil shale and natural gas we have in the US and Canada.

 

So if it's an issue of local or regional climate, then why are "green" energy proponents making it a national issue? Is it fair for people living in cloudy Seattle to subsidize solar energy projects that will only work in other states?

 

I dunno. I have a brain, education, and the internet. I can sit down at the kitchen table and run the numbers myself. It's called independent thought. I know for where my parents live which get's more annual sunlight than Germany solar doesn't make economic sense. I don't care which party someone is from they are not going to convince me solar is a good idea in northern Finland. If that is news to you and the OP that's your problem. I knew years ago it was a dubious idea. Everyone learns at their own speed.

 

What? What power plants idle at night? The solar ones they have nothing to do at night but waste money.

And when everyone plugs them in at night where is the power going to come from since the solar plant is sitting there wasting money.

More like allow for a 30% to allow for maintenance time.

That's what you libs never understand it is never free.

Where 115,000 live

Where 800,458 live.

Not exactly that moon you mentioned.

Not in the late afternoon when the sun is low in the horizon and the atmosphere is doing a good job of filtering out it's potential to create electricity, just about the time everyone is getting home and using their peak amount of electricity for the next few hours. As they try to cool or heat their homes, do their laundry, cook their meals, run their entertainment systems light their homes and if you have your way charge their cars.a

Where is the power going to come from.

But you still need a payoff and I don't believe these huge solar plants are paid for in cash, they are paid off from the income coming in. And when you are only generating cash for less than half the day.........

Do you understand anything about capital investment? Either you are going to have an expensive solar plant sitting there idle while you have a fossil or nuclear plant running to supply the required power or you are going to have a fossil of nuclear plant sitting there idle while you are getting from the solar. Either way you are not ultilizing the investment in the most efficient manner. Who wants to invest in a coal fired plant that will only produce income at night or just cloudy days and be sitting there worthless for the rest?

Which aren't necessarily running off the same plants or in the same area as the residential needs.

 

New Solar Panels can Work at Night

One thing that has stumped solar panel engineers is how to efficiently tap into energy on cloudy days, or when the sun is otherwise not shining…. say, in the dark! Would you believe me if I told you that some researchers have found a way to harvest solar energy even after the sun goes down? I find it hard to imagine solar panels that work at night.

Last year, researchers at the Idaho National Laboratory announced that they were on the verge of being able to make photovoltaic panels that are not only cost-effective, but can also tap into solar energy after sunset!

Even more, the panels have 80% efficiency, as opposed to the 40% efficiency of silicon solar panels. These unique solar panels are printed onto super-thin, flexible solar film. Sound expensive? Not at all! In fact, they are probably more cost-effective than traditional solar panels.

The following video shows more of the exciting research on which Idaho National Laboratories is working:


http://solarpowerpanels.ws/solar-panels/solar-panels-work-at-night

 

The major problem with a lot of Republicans is they don't understand the concept of living together in a country. If they don't see an instantaneous obvious benefit right in front of their eyes they are incapable of doing the necessary thought exercise to comprehend more complicated or abstract ideas.

The solar industry is making numerous technological breakthroughs. It may only be ready for prime time in a limited part of the country. But as with the internet it makes sense to have government funds subsidized the industry while it is in it's incubation period. When the internet was invented and subsidized by the government it benefited very few people. Far fewer than solar. It took decades for it to benefit nearly every American. In the meanwhile there were a ton of other government programs that went nowhere and never benefited the nation as a whole.

Just out of curiosity since you are so well versed on venture funding. What is the usual win/loss ratio for your average successful VC firm. What about the industry as a whole? What was Mitt Romney's win/loss ration at Bain Capital? Was it 90:10? Maybe 80:20? 65:35? Was it even over .500?

You may want to look those numbers up. It will help you avoid embarrassing yourself in these types of threads.

 

Now all we need them to do is sell the technology to China or Japan.

 

fake article, or very badly researched . Probably just started with "solar is bad lets find excuses to say why "

total solar generated energy output for Germany is close to 4 % now not 0.3

reason subsidies is being listed is the dramatic drop in of panels , even without these subsidies its worth it for citizens .

http://af.reuters.com/article/commoditiesNews/idAFL6E7NT1WK20111229?sp=true

 

Errrr...no.

Germany is cutting solar power subsidies becuase they have been successful and the price of solar has dropped rapidly.

Unlike the subsidies hat go to coal producers.

 

No - please try to learn something about a subject before posting.

Solar thermal power stations with heat storage operate 24/7. Day and night.


http://www.tonopahsolar.com/

 

A solar lobby groups said that? Really?

 

I guess I have to keep spoon feeding the info...

FYI whatever asinine point you were trying to make just got...
DEBUNKED!!!

 

Prefacing your argument with an inaccurate and unnecessary personal attack is not going to make your position anymore credible.

And since you're implying that I don't understand the concept of "living together in a country", why don't you explain why "living together in a country" obligates people from Seattle to subsidize a technology that you admit won't work in their city? Why can't people from California subsidize their own solar technology? Maybe if they weren't wasting it all on the progressive patronage system, they'd be able to afford it.

Did I say I was against subsidies? No, I did not. In fact, I specifically stated that state and municipal subsidies were a perfectly lawful and practical option. What I want to know is why a person from Seattle should subsidize an energy source that you admit won't even work in their locale? And it's not like California's government doesn't have the revenue or the access to capital. It's just laundered through the Democratic party.

Indeed! We should stop forcing these failures on the entire country. Let the brainless Democrats in California waste their own money.

Oh boy. What a pathetic tangent.