Germany: Right-wing protesters rally against new mosque in Monchengladbach

It seems one of your sentences slipped into that quote.
Anyway, I'm sure you would find many Germans who say that the country has been invaded, but you would defintely find just as many that wouldn't share that notion. 2015 was historical in my opinion, mass migrations are always historical or, at least, they will turn out to have historical consequences.
The late 90s were historical when millions of Russia(n)-Germans came to Germany. This changed the Germany that you or others have come to know and, as you say, last year's migration will probably also change the country. This, however, is far away from Germany turning into Germanistan, a part of Eurabia, a Sharia Kingdom or anything like that.

I have a tendency for long posts, bear with me. These are complicated topics and I for one find it utterly ludicrous to use one sentence comments like so many people do. What's the point in that? If I want something stupidly superficial, I'll watch reality tv.

Last year, 890,000 came. 40% were/are from the Balkans and are considered economic refugees. Roughly 4% of them will be allowed to stay in the long run, which means more than 95 % of them will be sent back sooner or later.
The system works like this:
There is no migration law that determines who should be allowed to come and who not. Many experts argue in favour of the Canadian system and say Germany should adopt it partly or completely. Right now, the only criterion is whether a person is persecuted or not (definitely highly democratic and humane, but also highly problematic). Everybody is basically allowed to enter, this person then applies for asylum and his/her case is checked individually. If authorities decide that this person is not persecuted - good-bye. If authorities decide that this person is persecuted, (s)he is allowed to stay for a number of years.
This system is extremely slow and very time consuming. Many refugees wait for their notification for several years.
(I don't know if you're familiar with the case "Curveball" in the context of the invasion of Iraq in 2003. In a long interview he mentioned this time consuming procedure.)
During this time, they are officially not allowed to work, which seems very unpractical in the current situation and many local communities don't follow that rule.
Most non-Germans I've talked to were under the impression that whoever came last year will automatically stay for good. Bottom line is: that's not true. Nobody knows how many of the 2015 refugees will be here in two or three years from now; you don't, I don't.
Btw, the number of new arrivals has decreased significantly (from roughly 10,000 per day in Nov/Dec 2015 to under 100) since January this year and the route across the Balkans is pretty much closed.

I don't rely on online forums for my political education or edification (nice word). I live here, I follow the news, I'm familair with Herfried Münkler or Jörg Baberowski and those people who openly criticize Islam and Merkel's policy, Yes, that is allowed here, despite the nonsense that so many folks on this board (you know from where) say. I know the demoscopic debate, which had been going on long before the crisis of 2015. So, in this respect, you're not telling me something new. It's a bit like telling an English person that his/her football (soccer, if you're a yankee) team hasn't won anything since 1966. They don't need me to tell them.

That 10% number was in reference to the Pew Institue and their prediction for 2070. I didn't say that this number will remain at that level. We know from social science that rich societies don't reproduce in high numbers; the richer a society, the fewer newborns. Right now, women in Muslim countries have considerably more children than western women as you say, this is not really new. Is this also true for those that will keep on living here in the western countries? I don't know. Pew reseach suggests that the birthrate in Muslim countries will continue to be higher than in the west, but Muslims in western countries are likely to reproduce at a slower pace.

One word regarding Merkel and her policy:
We have an election coming up next year and Merkel is very likley to win. Right now, she has approval ratings of 55-60%, but the numbers are falling. If you're familiar with her political philosophy, you'll know that she is not interested in creating something actively, her approach has always been "react." She waits what the world throws at her and then she reacts, but she's also highly opportunistic and wants to get reelected. Merkel knows that many aren't very happy about her at the moment and chances are, she's going to change her policy to please the voter.
Her ratings, however, also show us that many are absolutely fine with her policy. Are these people all brainwashed and only outsiders from thousands of miles away know what's really going on here? Very unlikely.

The bigger picture:
We, the western countries and in particular the most powerful of them all, have been creating chaos and turmoil across the globe for decades. We should seriously stop interfering in other countries' affairs, but that, unfortunately, is rather unlikely to happen.
Allow me to quote myself from another thread:
One example is our commercial policy. We produce way too much in Europe (e.g. milk, butter, meat, but also pharmaceuticals). A lot of what is not sold here, is exported to African countries and sold there underpriced making it impossible for local farmers, breeders and small businesses to compete. We take away their markets in their home countries and thus support poverty. Are you familiar with what Nestle is doing in Africa?
There are experts and political scientists (e.g. Noam Chomsky, Herfried Münkler) who say this refugee crisis was only the beginning and worse things are to come in the following decades if we don't change our politics and allow esp. African countries to develop a half-way stable situation.
I'm not saying the West is responsible for all evil in the world, but, unfortunately, we have our hands in a lot of things and shouldn't be surprised by the long term consequences.

Sorry, tis quite long. Sorry, if there are any mistakes, English is not my first language.

 

Nothing wrong with your post at all, though, as you say, it's long. Long posts usually require long answers and we often don't have the time to respond adequately to cover all the points. This is my case now, but thanks very much for your well regarded insights.

 

I fear there's no point in changing her policy, Caligula, because she has already caused so much demographic and cultural damage that it is now irreversible.

There are sections of the liberal fraternity in your country of the following mind-sets: 1.They realise they've been complicit in setting the ticking time bomb which I believe is going to hit Germany but are too arrogant to admit they were wrong (liberals will never admit they were wrong). 2. Are so obsessed with doing good that their misplaced compassion is overwhelming their better judgement, and they're willing to take in even more migrants. And finally 3. They're too stupid to realise that amongst the 'refugees' there are those who hate them, and have come for no other reason than to destroy their culture at best, and kill them at worst.

That passage of your post is extremely insightful and beyond argument, especially from me. I couldn't agree more with it.

I wouldn't have guessed that English isn't your first language, so my compliments to you for the construct of your posts, and the articulation.

 

Agreed, which is why all our countries are being threatened by the 'religion' that is intent upon prevailing over all others. Because of religious tolerance the west has become acquiescent towards other faiths, and those faiths are now taking advantage of it.

Unfortunately that now needs to be done; but I don't see why proscribing all religions should have any adverse impact on the democratic process?

Not wishing to go semantic on you but I prefer 'radical Islam' to 'radical Muslims'. The difference here is that right wing and left wing extremists don't set timed explosive devices in shopping malls, or strap explosives onto their bodies and board school buses, to get their way?

I don't see how the authorities can do that if they don't know from which country the identified radicals have arrived from, in order to return them there.

All of which are the very reasons to prevent anyone who has those beliefs from entering our countries. That cannot be achieved where there are no border controls.

Because of the current situation we might have to get used to the idea that democratic freedoms which we take for granted will have to be put on hold, and probably for a long time. Desperate situations call for desperate measures?

 

Whether they are 'trolls and idiots' or not they still have the same intention and it might be wise, given the violence seen so far, to take them at their word.

 

Of course is playing the 3 monkeys wrong as to underestimate their threat as for example this idiotic Bush administration did with Al Qaida before 9/11 because only still focused on Iraq and how to start a war with Saddam.

But to be hysterical and declaring a complete world religion to be the evil when not even 1% of them are part of this terrorist scum is not smart, but lame!

 

I don't know that anyone called all of Islam "evil". Do you have a quote for that or is this just another hysterical response? Living in the past also doesn't solve the present or future. Terrorists are to blame for terrorism, and that should be clearly understood.

 

Ehm ... is this now serious or did you not get all the posts here who declared the Islam is a general evil religion of hate? Hello?
Are you playing the 3 monkey not to have read this all here in forum?

 

Don't forget though, the other 99% want Sharia law???

 

Sure ... any other nonsense to claim as that?
99% of Christians want to have the bible as law back... correct?

Man, wake up and see truth that the terrorist scum is for evil and should be killed and is using Islam to back their evil things, but they are only a little minority. And the same is given with Sharia as law!

 

But the majority will have to do what the minority tell them to do. If one extreme Islamist tells a thousand Muslims to recognise Sharia law, that thousand Muslims will do it! You live in Germany? You're really in for a BIG shock. And soon!

 

First of all, take more care about our won Pakistani minority in your country...

And the rest, I'm not at all shocked at all, only maybe about the nonsense of BS which is claimed around!

Man ... far before and refugee wave was given, we have since decades a millions strong minority of Muslims in Germany of what were and are about 1-3% conservative Islamist. Very shocking I must say ... particularly when this minority is even for the rest of the 97-99% only a bunch of clowns and not more!

And finally ... it is very interesting how fast we Westerners are blaming someone to be an Islamist and so showing how stupid we are! When I was told that every Muslim who is taking Ramadan so far serious is an Islamist, then it shows that these people are stupid with lesser brain in head as a Barbie puppet has!

 

My posts on this thread are quite serious and you can take that as fact. If we are to base Islam on the Koran then there are enough hateful things in there to suggest it is truly a religion of hate. That not all Muslims are terrorists is fortunate because they, like many other religious people, ignore the teachings which are hateful or murderous.

This charge of being "evil" could be supported by the number of Islamic attacks throughout the world over recent years and the teaching of hatreds by Muslim leaders through the Islamic controlled media. We both know this has been going on for decades, right?

 

That same rule appliers in the democracies as well. No group has stepped forward in France to take Charlie Hebdo's place, and all the western media are very careful about what they say about Mohammed.

Luckily I checked to make sure of Charlie Hebdo and it seems there now a resurrection in Germany. We'll see how that goes. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/01/world/europe/charlie-hebdo-germany.html?_r=0

 

May I ask where that number comes from? Tbh, this sounds a lot like a case of 'perception is reality' to me.
Your claim is quite contrary to everything I've read and that includes investigations by German authorities.
I don't think you have access to sources that the BfV - Bundesverfassungsschutz - domestic intelligence service of the Federal Republic of Germany, doesn't have.
Extreme Islamism is not a homogenous/coherent phenomenon. There are several extremist groups and factions and not one unified, highly organized group. The simplified categories you're using do not really work and the numbers aren't correct either. The non-existing union among Muslims here can easily be seen by the fact that there is no such thing as one governing body that speaks for all Muslims but several (unlike the Central Council of Jews in Germany which is the only official Jewish board). To claim that 99% of all Muslims want the Sharia is simply incorrect.
The university of Hambrg carried out a study in 2007/08 (one could argue that it's not up to date anymore) in which they found that
1. 14% of Muslims in Germany decline democracy and prefer Sharia law. This group also regards politically-religiously motivated violence as acceptable.
2. Among Muslim pupils, this number is 29,2%.
3. Among Muslim university students the number is 16,4%

German skills needed.
https://www.welt.de/politik/article2385562/Wie-radikale-Islamisten-bekehrt-werden-koennen.html

As I've already said, there are problems and to ignore them would be really stupid, but I don't think that authorities and large parts of the society are blind. It's bad enough that we have these numbers, but we are far away from 99% and far away from a 'big shock very soon.' Quite frankly, that sounds a lot like typical yankee rhetoric used on this board. I wish I had a Euro/Dollar/Pound for every time I've read that.

No really a resurrection in Germany. Charlie Hebdo resurrected already a week after the Jan 2015 attacks. More an expansion into Germany.

 

It's a notional number which I used to convey 'the overwhelming majority'. My apology for confusing you.

- - - Updated - - -

Indeed - we sure are living in interesting times.

 

OK ... serious ... and you know out of what that the Koran is such an evil book? Did you ever read the Koran?
Problem is much deeper as people want to accept and it is also fact that only a small minority of the Muslims is terrorist or supporting them or even agreeing for what they are doing in general!

Point is, too, that much of what is taken by this scum as reason to back their terror, as well of those who are telling that Islam is in general dangerous are taking their interpretation of words of translated Koran words out of translations form a translation!
Look only about the silly translations of our Christian Bible and how different one and the same thing is throughout history changed in wording!
Further, much of these so often taken Sures etc. from Koran to show how violent the Koran is, are taken out of any depending context and content and looking only so bad because this context is missing. Also is a good example for all this the word Jihad!

You and many if not majority is taking this term automatically and only in context with Religious War of Muslims like our Crusades in the past. But ... Jihad has also the meaning of missionary which is everything but no war!

 

We don't have to read the Koran to see the evils of Islam just as we needn't read Karl Marx to see the evils of Communism or Mein Kamph to see the evils Nazism brought.

We can see the Islamic treatment of women, children and 'infidels', and the understand the evils of terrorism, without having to read the koran. Can you explain how reading the Koran would excuse or explain the stoning of women, the mass murder of children, or burning people alive?

 

It can explain with nothing, because the Koran does not tell this more or less as the bible at least! And this is the point where you make a big mistake in your thoughts!

Any scum in the world is always backing their evil doing with something where they made a strange reasoning out of a much more strange interpretation of the content!
Crusades, Witch Burning, Inquisition, Forced Missionary (Become Christian or die!), Devils Expulsion are all backed and reasoned with the bible by other Christians and their interpretation of this book! So are Christians then in general bad too now?
Ok, this was the past and Islamic Terror is today ... clear ... but a clear minority of lesser then 5% are even only a spark of Islamist and the rest not. So this rest is believing a an evil religion? For sure not!

Do you attack Christian religion because scum like KKK and other sort of racists who back their ideology and reasoning this with some phrases and interpretations out of bible ...?

 

Ethnic Germans will be a minority within 3 generations. Already, the ethnic German population is being reduced by 50% in just this generation due to ethnic Germans not wanting to have children.

1.7 million ethnic Germans have fled Germany.

The Muslim population in German estimated at around 6,000,000, is growing by birth rates at 1.7% per year, not counting more Muslim immigrants coming in legally and sneaking it.

The Germany social and welfare system is also coming under huge pressure.
Muslim men residing in Germany routinely take advantage of the social welfare system by bringing two, three or four women from across the Muslim world to Germany, and then marrying them in the presence of an imam. Once in Germany the women request social welfare benefits, including the cost of a separate home for themselves and for their children, on the claim of being a "single parent with children."

There are 20 million more Muslims in the ME and elsewhere wanting to come into Europe and Germany. Nearly 1 million more per year are entering Germany.

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6423/germany-muslim-demographic

Simple math makes it clear that ethnic Germans will be a minority of the population in 2 to 3 generations. However, it only takes a large militant minority to destroy a culture and take over. Ethnic Germans are passive, pacifists and appeasers. Muslim immigrants are not.

The fact is that the German government has surrendered to the Empire of Islam. Germany was not lost to ethnic Germans with a bang, but with a whimper. Few countries in history have openly invited invaders to their country, literally paying them to invade.

 

An American who feels the urge to lecture me on the possible future of the place I live in and uses gatestoneinstitute.
Why not breitbart.com, Jihad Watch and / or Fox?
I've read more about German politics and the German society than you probably ever will (and I can read stuff in German, which doesn't hurt). OMG. There is so much wrong with that article, I find it hard (and dangerous) that people actually believe these websites. You might be even one of those who seriously believe there is no free speech in Germany anymore.

How would you, as a yank, feel, if I started lecturing you on domestic US politics like health care, education system, election system, job market, migration, taxes and gun laws?
Would you even listen or accept criticism? My experience on this board says, no.
Why you yanks, sitting more than 7,000 kilometers away, seriously think you know best by reading said websites is beyond me.
No, I'm not extreme left, I'm not brainwashed, I don't vote for Merkel, never have and never will.

 

As you seemed to understand this isn't about Christianity, and any percentages you use should be supported by some evidence.

 

Thanks for your excellent Post.

Yes, I'm afraid that the vast majority of Americans resort to junk news to form their opinions as well as being professionally deceived about the "Evil Muslim" menace by our Zionist dominated Major Media.

Firstly, you're right in that Germany has managed to not only survive but excel under historic circumstances that would have long lead to the collapse of less resilient nations.
Few people realize the degree to which Germany has been tormented & persecuted during the 1900s as early as the Treaty of Versailles, subsequent, Allied Power pillaging & post War atrocities committed by Britain, France etc.

For example, after WW 1, Britain maintained its blockade of Germany through 1919 that lead to the starvation deaths of 900,000 innocent German civilians while France continued to seize vital natural resources, industrial equipment & farmland essential to the survival of any country.

Post WW 2 criminal torment, atrocities[1] & plunder was even worse but Germany managed to rebuild not only itself but also build virtually all of Israel's infrastructure: 3 Electric Power Plants & grid-work, Israel entire railway system including trains, 60 ships, irrigation systems & weaponry[3] that allowed the Israelis to defeat demoralized, poorly led Arab Armies.

In reality, then, it was the innovative Germans who "....made the desert bloom" while simultaneously rebuilding their own country with little or no foreign aid.

In spite of its War time devastation & the seizure of top German scientists by The U.S., Russia etc, Germany now follows only the U.S. in global innovations[4] and ranks as the world's most popular nation in a recent BBC poll[5].

I, too, lived in Germany as well as having traveled throughout the Islamic Middle East. During the 10 - 11 months I spent hitch-hiking, walking & riding camel back throughout the Islamic Mid East, I experienced only warm hospitality & eager generosity from the countless Muslims that I met & in whose homes I stayed.

You are correct in stating that Europe's Muslim refugees are

. Sadly, most Americans only experience with Muslims is founded on what they see & hear through America's Zionist dominated entertainment and "news" media [6], [7], [8].

Therefore, it is only a small percent of a smaller percent of Muslim evildoers that make the "news" headlines & form skewed popular American opinion while the majority of Muslim refugees want what most all refugees want. That desire is simply to live, study, work & worship with their families in peace.

I'm confident that if Germany can manage to flourish after decades of unrivaled adversity, it is unlikely that such a resilient & innovative country will be brought to its knees by a handful of malevolent refugees.








[1] “Eisenhower’s Holocaust: His Slaughter Of 1.7 Million(*)Germans!”
https://socioecohistory.wordpress.c...locaust-his-slaughter-of-1-7-million-germans/



[2] “Inside the Germany/Israel Relationship”
http://www.momentmag.com/inside-germanyisrael-relationship/
EXCERPTS “Federal Republic of Germany laid the groundwork for Israel’s infrastructure—including roads, railways and shipping—while simultaneously rebuilding West German industry. In 1952, the two states signed the Luxembourg Reparations Agreement,"CONTINUED


[3] “German-Israeli Armaments Cooperation”
http://www.bits.de/public/articles/cast06-02.htm
EXCERPT “Israel profited from cooperation by having a reliable and quick source for spare parts and complete weapon systems – even in times of war, when other nations like the United States, Great Britain and France were more restrictive in supplying arms to Israel. Another advantage was the willingness of the German government to pay for these exports to Israel.
German-Israeli armaments cooperation can be traced back to 1955/56..... Still, very little is known of the extent of this relationship."CONTINUED


[4] “Top 10 countries for innovation: U.S. leads; Germany, Japan follow”
http://www.zdnet.com/article/top-10-countries-for-innovation-us-leads-germany-japan-follow/

EXCERPT “GE's new Global Innovation Barometer indicates that global executives believe the U.S. leads the world in innovation. Behind it? Germany, Japan and China.”

The top 10, along with the percentage of agreement, below:
1. U.S.A. (67 percent)
2. Germany (44 percent)
3. Japan (43 percent)
4. China (35 percent)
5. Korea (15 percent)
6. India (12 percent)
7. Sweden (8 percent)
8. U.K. (7 percent)
9. Israel (6 percent)
10. France (4 percent)”
CONTINUED


[5] “BBC Poll: Israel Among World's Least Popular Nations”
http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/bbc-poll-israel-among-world-s-least-popular-nations-1.525890
EXCERPT“The annual BBC World Service poll finds Germany most popular; only countries less popular than Israel are North Korea, Pakistan and Iran.”CONTINUED


[6] “Jews Who Control Hollywood Tell Stars: Better Not Mention Palestine”
https://americanfreepress.net/jews-who-control-hollywood-tell-stars-better-not-mention-palestine/
EXCERPT “It’s official: Right now the No. 1 rule in Hollywood is that you can talk about anything political—except Israel’s attack on the Christians and Muslims in Gaza, Palestine. That’s not a conspiracy theory from critics of Israel or Jew-hating neo-Nazis. Instead, that was the thesis of a candid article in the August 1 edition of The Hollywood Reporter (THR), influential trade journal of the entertainment industry.



[7] “U.S. media coverage reveals a pro-Israel bias”
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion...erage-reveals-a-pro-israel-bias/#.Vhb3Zc02XUR



[8] “DECLASSIFIED SENATE INVESTIGATION FILES REVEAL CLANDESTINE, ISRAELI PR CAMPAIGN IN AMERICA”
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...israeli-pr-campaign-in-america-100976089.html

 

Sure ... and which evidence did you use? Nothing! Some Islamist terrorist scum is doing evil things ... wooops! Complete Islam is evil! This is your evidence.

 

In fact I asked for evidence to support your claims and you're unable to show it. Not unusual.