What ban talk??? Please show me where I or anyone else have called for a gun ban What I want to see is some rationality in the whole debate without this emotive "From my cold dead hands"
All three agreeing that she did not deserve to be shot and that in this instance the shooter was in the wrong - and in Diamond lil;s words "trigger happy" And this is a not uncommon scenario - witness the recent case of the German exchange student who was shot So gun or thinking wrong here because I would absolve the gun and blame the thinking behind the shooting Point is - is this type of thinking common enough that some effort should be put into changing peoples minds?
I never said you did. I just mentioned that ban talk gets old because it usually permeates gun threads eventually. And I'm an advocate of guns who, in post 21 of this thread, clearly laid blame where it belongs. Directly on the man who fired on her. We (the forum) bring up gun threads as if the guns are at fault, but when it's a car or something else, then it's the person at fault. That was my point.
gun control is the beginning, complete confiscation is the goal, no matter how long it takes, not matter how many lies are told, they think they can win this. Maybe to a nation of neuts, but I believe it would take a civil war to see what really happens. It may, nor may not, if it does, it will be a total global catastrophe. One should look at all of the logical outcomes before starting a gun grab here, like they did in Australia...
And my point is that it is less about the guns than the attitude and beliefs about guns - my stance has always been America would be better off keeping the guns and banning the NRA - especially since it became the advertising arm of the armaments industry Sites like Gunssaveslives build on the myth that one has to have a high power weapon to "defend your home and property" (really is anyone's life worth less than a second hand TV??) and this can contribute to people becoming fearful of being victimised (gosh it is happening every day according to gunssaveslives so it will be my turn soon) and fear can cause someone to react before thinking
I am being a little tongue in cheek about this but basically I want to stop the myths surrounding guns because they can and do affect us here whereas you owning guns there has no effect here.
A little tongue and cheek? Help me clear the water. Without all the hype what is your stance? It is my understanding that you want ownership to be a privileged with many types of firearms banned.
No - I have never advocated banning although I do think Australia did the right thing with severely limiting assault weapons since THAT seems to have resulted in fewer mass shootings, I also think, along with a large number of Americans that background checks are a GOOD thing but as for a "privilege" - yes only in that you have to earn it by showing (not just claiming) that you are a responsible person that will not on sell the gun to criminals, would keep it safe from children and not give it to their 90 year old demented grandfather but that is just me What I REALLY object to are the following The assertion that one cannot defend oneself fully without owning a gun That guns somehow will always scare away those who wish to do harm (yes I have read the responses about how just the sound of a shotgun being cocked would scare an intruder away - in which case why not buy a sound recorder?) That you are safer owning a gun than not - even if you cannot hit the backside of barn with one That you need a gun to ensure "freedom" (can anyone spell civil war) That somehow Australians and Brits are second class citizens because we have strict gun laws That only people who deserve it are shot (read some of the responses in relation to the high teen gunshot rate to see THAT myth in action) And so forth - because these beliefs are not confined to America but are spread, mostly by Americans, throughout the world
You asked a question about guilt or innocence with an American example, you did not mention at all in your original post about seeing or not seeing these kind of events in other countries. You changed direction/moved the goal posts sure as the sun rises in the east. I'll offer again, start a post on Australia asking the same question. You'll not get a response from me though, I could care less about other countries. You got an honest response in which I answered like most common sense Americans would. In America we have an inherit right to self defense and as long as we live inside the law, we are free from prosecution. Good luck
Just as I pointed out that there are many examples where the shooters are justified. Umm I think Diamond was agreeing with you...hence my response. Though more common is the use of weapons for justified self defense BINGO, YAHTZEE...It is always the thinking....the intent and not the gun. That's what we've been saying all along. I'm 100 percent behind you...let's go after the criminals and their thinking. Let's charge the person who uses a weapon and isn't justified. Let's leave alone the law abiding citizens, who own guns lawfully and don't think about using weapons inappropriately. If by common you mean criminal then yup, let's change their minds if we can, but then let's allow right thinking Americans to defend themselves when confronted with criminal thinking.
Fair enough. I advocate choice. Any other position only supports elitist. Many Nations governed by elitist have a bad habit throughout history seeing the public as a threat. You seem to focus on the citizen owning firearms which is only part of the issue without acknowledging bad governance. The larger picture. Until elitist learn to play nice with the people I want the people to play a role and have choice. I posted this in the gun control sub forum...... a very graphic video about elitist: http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=367754 In a nutshell, humans are violent.
Now it's about the site? A site that quotes news stations, new stations that quote local police reports? I guess I would like to see your myths. I do like the emotional transfer though......from defending ones life...to defending property? Just how many of those stories I posted were about defending property? Thank god Gunssavelives prepares people for realities like....gosh, this guy is here to kill or rape or injure me.
If he'd have been in North Carolina, he could have just called the cops out to shoot her. She was black, wasn't she?
I will hive a good look at it over the weekend but it is funded by a gun sales group and I more than suspect it is astroturf
Guy was convicted about 2 hours ago. (Please don't ask for a cite, just Google the name, it's there. I just got a new comp and am still trying to figure out Windows Eight Good thing IMO. People DO have a right to defend themselves but that doesn't amount to the old Japanese samurai privilege of kirisute gomen I think his statement that he "was not going to cower in his home" convicted him. It was arrogant and didn't show any real remorse for his having made a terrible mistake. He should have broken down in tears if he could have and said how very sorry he was and how he felt real regret, he probably would have gotten off. His statement gave the impression that he felt he had a license to kill if he felt threatened in any way without ascertaining what was really going on. That being said I would not object to some leniency, but it is important that gun owners realize they can't just kill anyone who disturbs them in the middle of the night
This seems perfectly reasonable to me Indeed they are, which is why we should stringently regulate weapons which are created solely to amplify their capacity for violence by several orders of magnitude. We do so with cars and airplanes and they have many other uses, guns do not.
here's your Friday morning huckleberry: 911 Dispatcher Tells Octogenarian To Lower Her Weapon And Wait For Police While Thug Breaks Into Her Home August 8, 2014 by Ben Bullard N.J. Logan, an 80-year-old Florida woman who had recently had hip replacement surgery, was resting at her home Holmes Beach, when some noises outside her window startled her. After discerning that it wasn’t her husband — who wasn’t expected home yet — her attention focused on protecting herself. “Once I realized it wasn’t my husband… you have no idea how fast you can go,” Logan told Tampa’s Fox 13 News. “All I wanted was my gun.” The invader had smashed the plate glass of Logan’s door, and had then cut out the screen behind it. Logan didn’t know whether someone was still inside her house, or where in the house an intruder might be. [video=youtube;44SftSVt1x4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44SftSVt1x4&feature=player_embedded[/video] According to the report, Logan headed toward the source of the noise, gun in hand, yelling warnings at whomever had entered her home. “I really didn’t want to have to shoot anybody,” she said. Only after arming herself did she call 911 for help. But the dispatcher repeatedly told her to put down her weapon. “When I called 911, she [the dispatcher] kept saying, ‘put the gun down, put the gun down,’” Logan told Fox 13. “I said, ‘I’ll put the gun down when I see the police.’” Not only is it a bad idea to throw away your best option for self-defense when someone intends to do harm to you or your property — it’s also a bad idea to take a firearm out of your own hands and place it in neutral territory, where the bad guy has an opportunity to grab the weapon and use your own gun against you. Logan didn’t come face to face with the intruder (or intruders). They fled after she announced that she was armed. Local police had not found a suspect in the break-in as of Thursday afternoon. “I believe in guns inside your house, because I don’t think anybody has a right to break into your private domain,” Logan said. Holmes Beach Police Chief William Tokajer evidently sees things Logan’s way. “I think it’s a wake-up call to any would-be burglar,” he told Fox 13. http://personalliberty.com/911-disp...an-lower-weapon-wait-police-thug-breaks-home/ no one died, and the old gal is alive and knows she is safe. Under Australia's plan, she would have been raped, tortured, then murdered........... what a nice way to handle the victim or her Rights, to deny her the basic Right to protect herself. That's what those who deny the Right to self-protection want...defenseless old women
absolutely right..........that being said, there are those anti-gun folks that will perceive her as the criminal for just having a gun.....
Guilty or Not Guilty? http://gunssavelives.net/self-defen...d-shotgun-to-fight-off-violent-home-invaders/
