Guns and kids

I don't think they are mutually exclusive though. There are ways to store them safely out of the reach of my own kids or others kids, but still have quick access if needed. I keep mine in a very strudy drawer safe with a loaded magazine, so in a matter of seconds i could be ready if needed.
I will agree many think keeping guns locked up is a bad idea, but I think there is a middle ground...

 

And the point I am making here is that the conversation should be started. How to lock guns away safely, or have them manufactured so that they are safer. Gun manufacturers do not want to make and advertise guns with "child proof locks" because that will link child accidents with guns in people's minds and that will cost them sales

This will be far cheaper than the reversing cameras and will save lives

But the conversation has to start

 

Good for you and the parents of the two year old whose head was swelling as I watched because the tyre had run over her entire little body - they did not intend that to happen either

The entire thread I have been battling the perception that I want to take guns away - I do not

I want to destroy the myths that have been created around guns

I want to get people to see the problems without making excuses

Then to look at ways they can have their cake and eat it too - it other words a way you can KEEP your guns without endangering children

 

Again who made you the one to determine what 'myths were created around guns'?

 

Why darlin'

Believe it or not I do have a brain and can use it!!

I realised that America has some hard held myths when I first started to analyse the cultural inconsistencies between our two nations in relation to this topic

 

And those "hard held myths" would be...?

 

A) more guns means a safer society
b) you are defenceless without a gun
c) guns means freedoms (and beans means farts)
d) "they" will take away your rights if you do not have a gun
e) etc and variations of the above

 

Well let's see... I think I shall focus on "D" above for now --

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government" - Thomas Jefferson

"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them." - Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined." - Patrick Henry

"Certainly one of the chief guarantees of freedom under any government, no matter how popular and respected, is the right of the citizens to keep and bear arms. [...] the right of the citizens to bear arms is just one guarantee against arbitrary government and one more safeguard against a tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proved to be always possible." - Hubert Humphrey

And one of my favorites...

"You know why there's a Second Amendment? In case the government fails to follow the first one." - Rush Limbaugh

 

American hyperbole

And I would love to debate more but THIS thread is about guns and children so please stop trying to derail it

 

Just because some Americans agree with your position does not mean that it is still not a myth. Your argument could be called an Appeal to Belief fallacy or even an Appeal to Authority fallacy. But even if your position were valid, it's still merely one out of four. Not too good.

 

And don't forget one of my personal favorites;
"We can't allow any new gun law because it will begin an automatic, inevitable, and fateful slippery slope into gun confiscations"

Then, there's always:
"Liberals are Anti-Gun and Anti-Second Amendment (not to mention, downright un-Patriotic)"

 

Yes, and although I admit to stirring the pot a bit when I started this thread I knew that it would be derailed from my original intent by those very myths

It is difficult to get people PAST those cliches into really looking at the whole gun issue with new insight. I admire the advertising campaigns that have brought this about in America - I really do I just wish more of your countrymen could see how they are being manipulated

But then that goes for a lot of things in America - I guess we Aussies are waaaay more cynical because a lot of these myths we would nod, think about and then turn around and tell the person they were speaking out of their arse

 

You and me, both......... You and me, both.

 

I really do wish you two would find some other hobby than schooling us poor,backward Americans about our 'myths' and insulting the words of great men in our history.

 

Ayuh,.....You and me, both......... You and me, both......

 

awwww DIDDUMS!! Did the nasty internets peoples say sumfing oo don like!!

You do not need to read it nor do you need to respond

You can put all of us on ignore if you want

 

American hyperbole? In case you are lacking in your knowledge of American history, Thomas Jefferson and Patrick Henry were two of the Founding Fathers. Add to that a Supreme Court Justice, a former United States Vice-President (and Presidential candidate), as well as a popular political commentator, and we've just established a wide cross-section of the American political spectrum. And, FYI, those are only a few of the comments regarding the belief that private ownership of firearms is a method envisioned by the Founding Fathers to keep the Federal government from becoming too authoritarian.

And, FWIW - When you post a comment in this, or any other thread, please be prepared to explain and/or defend your comments. If your comments are challenged, please don't hide behind the "I don't want to derail this thread" excuse. It is tawdry and disingenuous.

Some Americans? Please see above comments vis-a-vis "Founding Fathers" and "wide cross-section of American political spectrum". As far as an Appeal to Authority or Appeal to Belief fallacy - all I can do is state the positions of men who originally founded this country, and wrote the Declaration of Independence and/or the United States Constitution. What more do you want?

In case you didn't completely read my post, please allow me to reiterate the opening -- "Originally Posted by SpotsCat: Well let's see... I think I shall focus on "D" above for now --"

For now... meaning it is the part of Bowerbird's post I chose to respond to at that particular moment. Perhaps I shall address the remainder of the comments at a later time, perhaps not.

 

Again I request that the original intent of the thread is returned to - meanwhile I have started another thread outlining what I perceive to be myths surrounding guns in America

But even the derailing points to the fact that many Americans do not want to talk about the impact of gun ownership on children

 

I think more kids should have access to guns so they can kill themselves. The less stupid people on this earth the better.

 

Darwinism at its best (or worst, depending) eh?

 

Smith and Wesson sold most of their revolvers handguns with built-in safety locks from 2001 to now. Some models have stopped been sellign with locks, because they have been found to be prone to accidentally locking the gun while firing.

IMHO, a better solution is for gunowners with children to lock their guns in a gun safe. Models are made with electronic combination locks that are quick to open (with the combination) and are running about $100. I use a slower gun case for my guns, however, I can open it and have my gun ready in about 20 seconds.

 

Wow, a list of strawmen.....

My general observation is that most people when talking about the myths of the groups they oppose are setting up strawmen......

 

We have to have gun safes here

But there are ways around this and it means the manufacturers should really start looking into it. Perhaps what we should happen is all new guns require activation by a microchip - and you have to have a microchip imbedded to use one

 

NO it is a summation of the responses to gun threads I have read over the years

 

I don't recall any insults, friend. I DO understand why you'd be smarting some from facing the realities, however. Sometimes the truth does hurt. Don't let that deter you from pursuing a reasoned position though. A rational and reasoned argument CAN be made for gun ownership, but the use of myths and slogans is counterproductive to that end.