Heavy Metal #2

Dime was one of the all time greats. I still can't believe that idiot in Ohio murdered him.

I really started getting into Pantera after they developed their own distinctive sound. Damageplan had potential, too...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmdy53XmKD8"]Damageplan (Pride) - YouTube[/ame]

 

Venom - Leviathan
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQHpQUcDAFc"]Venom - Leviathan - YouTube[/ame]

 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvWIjMaM3QU&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL69AC55FE2DFDBC3D"]Slayer In their own words (Still Reigning DVD) 1/3 - YouTube[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QwMridkgvg&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL69AC55FE2DFDBC3D"]Slayer In their own words (Still Reigning DVD) 2/3 - YouTube[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU3f2Lvd0Fc&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL69AC55FE2DFDBC3D"]Slayer In their own words (Still Reigning DVD) 3/3 - YouTube[/ame]

 

Really? There are many metalheads who dislike Pantera. I think even a good number of Pantera fans (besides the ones who gush over them) can at least admit they are overrated. Dimebag was a decent guitarrist, but he isn't a metal god or one of the greatest guitar players of all time like his fans make him out to be. "Walk"? That has to be one of the dumbest metal songs ever written. Dull, boring, repetitive, yet insanely popular. That is pretty much how I feel about almost all of Pantera's work.

It wasn't just an image, though. They didn't just change their looks, they changed their whole identity as a band. They even stopped playing their older songs. It's like they pretended that their pre-Cowboys days never even happened. I feel like their tough guy era was more of a fabricated image designed to fill some sort of niche. It was a very successful move for them, I'll give them that, but I've never been convinced by it.

 

I've never been a huge Pantera fan myself. They were OK, but definately hugely overrated, in my opinion - I never got what was so wonderfully important or original about them.

 

Agreed, especially about the originality of Pantera. They ripped off their style from Exhorder.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgukizxZ5QM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgukizxZ5QM[/ame]

 

Dime is without a doubt one of the greatest guitarist of all time. He doesn't quite fit in with Vai, Petrucci, Satch, Yngwie, etc etc etc, but he was far better than Hammet, Kerry King, Dave Mustiane, Iommi, Randy Rhoads, etc etc etc.

Perhaps their evolution was influenced by a scene change in general. I don't think there is anything wrong with a band changing directions. If their reasoning was purely financial in nature, that would be one thing, but I don't get that impression.

The greatest similarity being the vocals. There is no denying that. The percussion is different enough, tone is the most similar thing about the guitars. Stylistically, the difference is discernible. Besides, there must be a reason why one turd got flushed and the other rose to the top.

 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgtwCqIjAc0&feature=related"]Children Of Bodom - Not My Funeral (2011) - YouTube[/ame]

 

I gotta agree with you there...

 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taMumuvAyRY"]Soundgarden - Face Pollution [Studio Version] - YouTube[/ame]

 

I'm not sure Joe fits in this category, but this is one of his heavier tunes...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnK1TXd_lIo"]Hordes Of Locust - Joe Satriani - Montreux Jazz 1988 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOg04SuDkAI&feature=related"]Galactic Cowboys - Psychotic Companion - YouTube[/ame]

 

I disagree. I would put Dimebag below everyone you listed except Kerry King (who has always sucked - let's be honest). I just never saw what was so impressive about Dimebag's guitar skills. Pantera's music is more about heavy chord progression than intricate solos. Most of their stuff is slower paced, as well. The fact that he ended up in a chugga-chugga nu-metal band like Damageplan was a fitting place for Dimebag, as it worked better for his style of playing.

Now, I have no idea if Dimebag showed off more of his skills during the early glam years... I've heard very little of that material and the stuff that I did hear was not impressive.

I can't say for certain. I've just never been convinced by their new tough guy attitude and style, when just a few years prior, they were teasing their hair, pouting their lips, and wearing makeup. The fact that they never went back and played any of their old songs, and never gave an adequate explanation, just never sat well with me. I don't remember anybody even asking them about it. It's like everyone wanted to forget about their pre-Cowboys years.

I disagree with this. There are many talented metal bands who never went anywhere, and many very mediocre bands who became superstars. Popularity and success are not always indicators on quality, especially in metal. Timing and luck seem to be as important as musical skill and songwriting ability, in many cases.

 

Great song, right here. The doom metal awesomeness is good enough to cover up the stoner rock traces..

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9kMoN7hmlE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9kMoN7hmlE[/ame]

 

He's simply more skilled, creative, and dynamic than the other other guitarist I listed. I almost listed EVH, but that's certainly debatable.

Here's a good compilation of his solos, the guy who posted this even left out a few that I like. But for most of the guitarist I listed, there are similar compilations... and the side by side comparisons are self evident.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNEVPBxTIw8"]Top 10 Dimebag Solos - YouTube[/ame]

Yeah, something really seemed to happen around Great Southern Trend Kill. I never really got into damage plan much.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rJnj-_lsuo"]Dimebag solo 18 years old. epic, - YouTube[/ame]

Some of it really wasn't that bad. But then again I still like to hear things like Poison, White Snake, Warrant (laughing yet?).

That's a fair point.

 

Timing and luck will always be a huge factor in success, and there are many great bands who never 'make it', but in fairness those that make it to the top and stay there generally have to have something going for them musically, too, or people will just lose interest. In the case of Pantera, I would say they wrote some good songs and made some good music, but I've just never seen why they are quite as highly regarded as they often seem to be. they were a decent engough band, but I just don't see them as being 'special', if you see what I mean.

I'd agree that Kerry King isn't exactly the greatest guitar player in the world, but that isn't always what it's all about. Perfect as a guitar player he isn't, but perfect for being in Slayer and contributing to the overall effect of Slayer's music in the right way to make it work he is. I'd say the same about Kirk Hammet - in technical terms he's not a 'great guitar player', but he is a 'great guitar player for Metallica', and in his position, that's really the important thing! I guess I'd say the same about Dimebag - he fitted perfectly into what Pantera were doing, so that's fine.

Putting Dimebag 'above' Iommi is just criminal, though! He might have technical deficiencies compared with some others (he did have a specific difficulty to overcome that they didn't, obviously!), but he really did personally invent so much of what has become known as the 'heavy metal' style as a guitar player that he really can't be fairly categorised in those purely technical terms.

 

Heavy and atmospheric, something FF is good at.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mD-pKu-5bw"]Fear Factory - Human Shields - YouTube[/ame]

 

Those are all great points, especially about Iommi. But I saw Pantera open for the original Sabbath that one Ozzfest and Pantera totally kicked their ass.
But its two different eras.

 

This has been my favorite song since high school.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_gR7pkAcAc&feature=endscreen&NR=1"]Manowar - Hail And Kill - YouTube[/ame]

 

I listened to those solos (hard to sit through 10 minutes of Pantera, to be honest), and I wasn't impressed by any them. I guess I just don't appreciate his specific style. Way too much hammering and trills that don't really go anywhere. The solo in "Where You Come From" is about as good of an example as I can think of. I just don't understand how someone can classify him as one of the best guitarists ever. I guess we'll just agree to disagree.

Nah, I don't hate all hair metal. I don't know if Dokken qualifies as hair metal exactly, but they had a few great songs.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d51IRlf_Xdw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d51IRlf_Xdw[/ame]

 

Yeah, that's exactly how I feel about them. As for bands who stay at the top, what they have going for them doesn't always indicate quality. Sometimes they just have a certain image, message, or some other attribute that catches the eye of the mainstream. Mainstream music fans need less to become a fan than real metalheads, in my opinion. They are less discriminating, in general.

I agree with this. I am a fan of quite a few bands with guitarists who are not exactly world class guitar players. Black metal, for example, requires some skill to play fast tremolo style picking, but it doesn't usually require what most would consider high skilled guitar playing ability.

I definitely agree with this. Iommi may not have been the fastest player out there, but his playing is inventive, rhythmic, and has a particular soul to it. It's not just about blistering solos and heavy stomping, although he can do both (seen him play from about 15 feet away), but he had the ability to go up and play a solo that actually went somewhere, unlike many of the flashy wank-fest type guitar players I've seen. I've seen players like John Petrucci and Zakk Wylde go up and play some pointless solo for 10 minutes that, although required incredible skill, sounded like (*)(*)(*)(*) and ended up being a boring waste of time. Iommi doesn't do this. If he plays something, you'll enjoy it.

 

Good stuff. Manowar may be cheesy as hell at times, but they've pumped out some great stuff over the years.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFA9vzdoY64"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFA9vzdoY64[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fjvretZ5Ok"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fjvretZ5Ok[/ame]

 

I love the way this song ramps up.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGkc9XZnLNY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGkc9XZnLNY[/ame]

 

Dynamics, technical ability, creativity, and of course his ability to convey feeling. I think I'm being pretty objective, I'm not basing my opinion off sentiments alone, or simply throwing back respect to earlier trail blazers. I really didn't pay much attention to Dime's playing until after I started listing to shred virtuosos like Vai. That's when I really started to notice Dime's solo work. Ditto for EVH.

You can find all kinds of ridiculous list by supposedly knowledgeable people who claim that guitarist like Iommi and Hammet are better than the likes of Vai, Paul Gilbert, Petrucci, et al... something is obviously amiss!

 

You are comparing apples and oranges. Sure Vai, Malmsteen, and the like are way more skilled technically, but who can really just sit and listen to them for any amount of time? Iommi IS way better than those guys in terms of composition. Most metal guitarists actually play two roles- guitar player and guitar composer. Look back in history, who are remembered? Composers, or players? That is why Iommi is better than people like Vai or even Satch. His music means something, and it is memorable. Listen to Malmsteen for a few minutes and you can't remember any of it - it's just a blurr of notes. Listen to Sabbath, and it stays with you.